Which will voters remember more in 2024?

Which will voters remember more in 2024?

  • How horrific the Trump administration was

    Votes: 6 46.2%
  • That the Biden administration didn’t do anything for them

    Votes: 7 53.8%

  • Total voters
    13

Chew Toy McCoy

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Right now the Democrats aren’t doing much to get people excited about, and in fact are actively removing things from legislation that is popular. If things go back to Trump I predict a lot of “I wish we took the threat more seriously” interviews from the left to which I say go fuck yourself.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Well, obviously nobody is getting excited about stupid democrat ideas, like worrying about the environment and a future for our next generations, when it could impact corporations profit and make things slightly inconvenient for the true US patriots.

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I have asked if that includes not restricting stuff like anthrax. You know, for duck hunting.

I’m not even talking about climate change legislation. In fact if that is all that is left of Biden’s bill a lot people aren’t going to be happy about it. People care most about their economic situation NOW. It was the economic conditions in Germany in the 30’s that made a lot of Germans go “You know, he’s making a lot of good points.” when listening to Hitler.
 
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I totally hear you. My initial response before I deleted it was very different and I compared the current democrats behaviours and reactions to what happened in Germany in the early 1930s.

I wasn't specifically focussing on the climate change legislation, but trying to illustrate that there is a bunch of people actively opposing anything that the democrats do, even if it's for their own good, and a bunch of people who believe that the democrats are not going anywhere far enough. From where I am standing, the US democrats appear weak, ineffectual and blind to the realities and threats that they face. Put that in the context of a global pandemic, an economic downturn and a superpower in its twilight years and you have a cinder box just waiting for a few matches.
So, is the answer for the DNC to tell everyone to “Vote for Trump”?
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I totally hear you. My initial response before I deleted it was very different and I compared the current democrats behaviours and reactions to what happened in Germany in the early 1930s.

I wasn't specifically focussing on the climate change legislation, but trying to illustrate that there is a bunch of people actively opposing anything that the democrats do, even if it's for their own good, and a bunch of people who believe that the democrats are not going anywhere far enough. From where I am standing, the US democrats appear weak, ineffectual and blind to the realities and threats that they face. Put that in the context of a global pandemic, an economic downturn and a superpower in its twilight years and you have a cinder box just waiting for a few matches.

Heard a recent discussion about who Democrats could run if Biden couldn’t run and there were pretty much zero promising candidates. With the possible exception of this year, I think this is the culmination of a long history of Democrats coming to the bargaining table starting with already watered down demands and then having those eroded even further by Republicans to pass an empty husk of what they were aiming for. They’re fighting extremism with mediocrity.

I think a percentage of Trump voters voted for him because they wanted to burn the whole system down (with complete ignorance of or interest in what that would look like) and if Democrats fail to do anything economically meaningful I think even more people are going to join that mindset. We live in a hyper greedy society and if people start seeing more money in their wallets it’s going to be a lot harder for them to go “fuck those guys!”
 

Edd

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Trump would do better to lay low for at least a couple of years like normal ex-presidents. But he can’t shut up so keeps reminding all of us he’s a dumb, dreadful human being who enjoys criming. So, (fingers crossed) I don’t expect him to pull off a re-election. But, I was wrong in 2016.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Trump would do better to lay low for at least a couple of years like normal ex-presidents. But he can’t shut up so keeps reminding all of us he’s a dumb, dreadful human being who enjoys criming. So, (fingers crossed) I don’t expect him to pull off a re-election. But, I was wrong in 2016.

I'm also wondering what a Trump 2nd term would look like. Do a lot of people still think building the wall and restarting a trade war with China is going to solve all our problems? Another massive tax cut for the rich? Continuing the culture war isn't going to pay the bills. Actually, I can't think of anything that Trump or Republicans are pitching that will pay the bills.

If nothing else it will definitively prove we have a failed democracy and the world should start looking elsewhere for inspiration. And I'm not even talking about voter rigging or suppression. I'm talking that once again enough people felt Trump is the best of the best to lead our country. People should stop saying that's not who we are and realize that is exactly who we are. We all contributed to this in one form or another, whether it's being a Trumper or continuing to put people in office simply because of their party and despite nothing meaningful done for most of the country.
 

Yoused

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Fail to overlook the marxist undertow in the US economy. The workers seem to be starting to discover that they are in fact the means of production, that not having the wheel grinding down their shoulders is a good thing, that doing stuff at home is better than staring at the office and at customers that should be venting at the boss, not them. There may be a large social shift forming, and the upper crust better be right on top of it, lest it get out of hand.

Which is to say, 2017 seemed to usher in a new normal, and 2020-21 may be seeing the leading edge of a very different new normal, unless the old guard can effectively quash it before it gains traction.

For the past thirty years, the RW has become increasingly shrill, perhaps because they fear their own contraction. Fewer people have to shout louder in order to be heard. The question is about whether the broad middle will notice their shrillness or not. In '13, the thought of president CFEFWSG was not even a serious consideration. Where will the country be 3 years from now? The possibility does exist that Deutschebank will sack up and really put the squeeze on Individual-ONE next year. That could seriously change the dynamic.

tldr: things are changing, do not use yesterday's math to measure tomorrow
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Fail to overlook the marxist undertow in the US economy. The workers seem to be starting to discover that they are in fact the means of production, that not having the wheel grinding down their shoulders is a good thing, that doing stuff at home is better than staring at the office and at customers that should be venting at the boss, not them. There may be a large social shift forming, and the upper crust better be right on top of it, lest it get out of hand.

Which is to say, 2017 seemed to usher in a new normal, and 2020-21 may be seeing the leading edge of a very different new normal, unless the old guard can effectively quash it before it gains traction.

For the past thirty years, the RW has become increasingly shrill, perhaps because they fear their own contraction. Fewer people have to shout louder in order to be heard. The question is about whether the broad middle will notice their shrillness or not. In '13, the thought of president CFEFWSG was not even a serious consideration. Where will the country be 3 years from now? The possibility does exist that Deutschebank will sack up and really put the squeeze on Individual-ONE next year. That could seriously change the dynamic.

tldr: things are changing, do not use yesterday's math to measure tomorrow

I don’t see either party doing anything for the workers on the worker revolt side of things and there’s a huge percentage of the population that doesn’t have a job with a work from home option, and I’m not talking the company won’t allow it. I’m saying there are a lot of jobs that logistically can’t be done from home or people don’t have the qualification to get those type jobs. At the risk of sounding Republican, focusing on those people is a little elitist. Also it’s not those people who put Trump in office the first time.

I also think a lot of people on the left haven’t come to grips with the fact that it was the Obama years that put Trump in office for a lot of people and they aren’t all racists. They saw the neoliberal practice of bailing the banks and Wall St. out while they’re situation didn’t improve or got worse. “W Bush handed him a mess” only went so far and so will Trump’s handed over mess.

People’s mentality and values have changed but I don’t see the government doing much in the way of change.
 

SuperMatt

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I also think a lot of people on the left haven’t come to grips with the fact that it was the Obama years that put Trump in office for a lot of people and they aren’t all racists. They saw the neoliberal practice of bailing the banks and Wall St. out while they’re situation didn’t improve or got worse. “W Bush handed him a mess” only went so far and so will Trump’s handed over mess.
Look at the demographics of the regions that went Trump in 2016. Racist backlash IS why he won.

Maybe not all Trump voters are racists. But all of them are OK with his blatant racism (and misogyny).

Find me the Trump voter who actually knows or cares anything about neoliberal practices and had “bank bailouts” as their reason for picking him. IMHO, you truly underestimate just how racist millions in this country really are.
 
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Thomas Veil

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I think voters have a memory span of about 15 minutes and they will certainly not remember how chaotic and dangerous the Trump administration was. They will look at the price of gas the week before the election and vote accordingly. Please don't tell me that doesn't make sense. I know it doesn't. But Americans are not exactly "big picture" voters.

Therefore they end up with the kind of government they deserve. Look at this last election. The Democrats won (barely) in numbers, but not in actual practice. Manchin and Sinema could help the Dems push through some serious programs, but they won't. So many of the policies the Democratic party or Joe Biden hope to pass are doomed to fail. Then next fall, instead of electing more Democrats and pushing Sinema and Manchin out to fix that problem, the electorate will perform the usual insanity of swinging wildly back to the Republican Party, this guaranteeing (at best) an even greater stalemate or (at worst) policies designed to inch us slowly back in time, before things like civil rights became fashionable.

I'm also wondering what a Trump 2nd term would look like.

Well for one thing, that would be the end of democracy as we know it. Trump, McConnell, McCarthy and that whole crooked bunch will have the courts and the states set up to keep the Republicans in power indefinitely. Like many bogus democracies, we will have the illusion of a two party system but in reality the Republicans will have it rigged so they always win.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Look at the demographics of the regions that went Trump in 2016. Racist backlash IS why he won.

Maybe not all Trump voters are racists. But all of them are OK with his blatant racism (and misogyny).

Find me the Trump voter who actually knows or cares anything about neoliberal practices and had “bank bailouts” as their reason for picking him. IMHO, you truly underestimate just how racist millions in this country really are.

I’d argue more people lost their jobs due to outsourcing or dying industries than there are pure racist voters. I media largely only interviews one type of Trump voter, the ones we love to hate on and ridicule on here, but I've also seen plenty where they talk about their economic conditions and a government that has completely let them down, regardless of who is leading the government.

I think a lot of people on the left need to step outside their outrage over Trump and see reasons for his popularity that aren’t all hate and racism. I think it’s safe to assume that people who voted for Trump’s horrific administration on my poll can’t get past their outrage but 77 million people still voted for Trump right after his horrific administration and most of them aren’t going to give a damn about whatever negativity about him has come out since then.

Trump is a symptom of a greater problem and that problem is nowhere near fixed.
 

SuperMatt

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I’d argue more people lost their jobs due to outsourcing or dying industries than there are pure racist voters. I media largely only interviews one type of Trump voter, the ones we love to hate on and ridicule on here, but I've also seen plenty where they talk about their economic conditions and a government that has completely let them down, regardless of who is leading the government.

I think a lot of people on the left need to step outside their outrage over Trump and see reasons for his popularity that aren’t all hate and racism. I think it’s safe to assume that people who voted for Trump’s horrific administration on my poll can’t get past their outrage but 77 million people still voted for Trump right after his horrific administration and most of them aren’t going to give a damn about whatever negativity about him has come out since then.

Trump is a symptom of a greater problem and that problem is nowhere near fixed.

Sure, they lost their jobs, and Trump blamed it on Mexicans or China, so they voted for him. Since Mexican isn’t a race per se, I guess it’s xenophobia. Point is, they are upset at their situation, and voted for the guy who promised to beat up on a scapegoat instead of actually proposing any realistic solutions to the problem.

The GOP obstructs all real solutions, so the country can get worse, people get angrier, and more xenophobic, thereby keeping the GOP going.

And um, I didn’t realize that there was a purity test to determine one’s level of racism. If one is OK with Trump, there are OK with racism. Period. No matter what other excuse(s) they make, they are ok with him openly spewing racist, xenophobic, misogynistic comments, stealing brown kids away from their parents, banning Muslims, etc. If somebody is OK with that, there is something wrong with them.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Find me the Trump voter who actually knows or cares anything about neoliberal practices and had “bank bailouts” as their reason for picking him. IMHO, you truly underestimate just how racist millions in this country really are.

Also let's not forget about the millions of people who got kicked out of their homes which were later sold to equity firms at a big discount and rented back to them at a premium. Way to look out for Main St, there.
 

SuperMatt

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Also let's not forget about the millions of people who got kicked out of their homes which were later sold to equity firms at a big discount and rented back to them at a premium. Way to look out for Main St, there.
And what did Trump do to fix that? As I recall, that wasn’t even a talking point in his campaign. Look at the polls as to why people voted the way they did, I don’t believe thinking Trump would get them a new house was even a blip.

It’s crazy to blame Democrats as a whole for Trump. If you want to blame the 2 Democratic Senators who are obstructing policies that would actually help America, then I’m fine with that. They are a disgrace.
 
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