Why is it OK for 250K guns to be "lost" or stolen annually in the States?

P_X

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ABOUT 1.4 MILLION GUNS STOLEN DURING HOUSEHOLD BURGLARIES AND OTHER PROPERTY CRIMES FROM 2005 THROUGH 2010 WASHINGTON – About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released today by the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS). This number represents an estimated average of 232,400 firearms stolen each year— about 172,000 stolen during burglaries and 60,300 stolen during other property crimes.

Many people pretend like criminals forged their own weapons... Most of those firearms were purchased legally at one point.
 

Alli

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Many people pretend like criminals forged their own weapons... Most of those firearms were purchased legally at one point.
We had that argument in PRSI. It's never the fault of the gun owner who should have his entire collection on his person 24/7 and never leave his precious home alone or heaven forbid! locked in a gun cabinet.
 

SuperMatt

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We have more guns than people. At this point, losing one is probably as common as a lost pencil. This country is seriously messed up with its gun obsession.
 

Yoused

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My hard-line approach is serial number registration and you are responsible for how that weapon is used, by whoever uses it. Transfer of ownership requires transfer of registration if you want to be off the hook. And theft, well, I am reluctant to grant much leeway on that. Maybe a little if you report it, but dammit, do not let your guns get snagged.
 

P_X

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My hard-line approach is serial number registration and you are responsible for how that weapon is used, by whoever uses it. Transfer of ownership requires transfer of registration if you want to be off the hook. And theft, well, I am reluctant to grant much leeway on that. Maybe a little if you report it, but dammit, do not let your guns get snagged.
The counterargument is that people who live in dangerous neighborhoods are more likely to be armed (untrue as far as I know). It's also hilarious on its own how these very guns didn't prevent their own theft, LOL.
 

Yoused

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My other kink is the trigger: it should not be part of the gun. Picture a ring with a "L" shaped bar on it. You insert the vertical bar in the hole just ahead of the grip, swing it up into the track and then slide it forward until the little front tab seats. You can hold it in the track without seating the tab and nothing can happen, and if you take your hand away, it falls out. It could be generic or gun-keyed specific, and you can put it on a little bracelet to keep it handy.

This way, a thief would have to find your trigger (especially if it was keyed, which they might not be able to tell without trying another trigger). You can have the trigger seated in half a second, which may be enough time for you to think “maybe I should not do this”, and if you keep the trigger on your wrist or in your pocket, the kids can play with the gun till the cows come home without anyone getting hurt.

Really, I am having a hard time coming up with a downside that does not sound like a whine.
 

P_X

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My other kink is the trigger: it should not be part of the gun. Picture a ring with a "L" shaped bar on it. You insert the vertical bar in the hole just ahead of the grip, swing it up into the track and then slide it forward until the little front tab seats. You can hold it in the track without seating the tab and nothing can happen, and if you take your hand away, it falls out. It could be generic or gun-keyed specific, and you can put it on a little bracelet to keep it handy.

This way, a thief would have to find your trigger (especially if it was keyed, which they might not be able to tell without trying another trigger). You can have the trigger seated in half a second, which may be enough time for you to think “maybe I should not do this”, and if you keep the trigger on your wrist or in your pocket, the kids can play with the gun till the cows come home without anyone getting hurt.

Really, I am having a hard time coming up with a downside that does not sound like a whine.
bhut this sounds expensiveeeee
 

Alli

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My other kink is the trigger: it should not be part of the gun. Picture a ring with a "L" shaped bar on it. You insert the vertical bar in the hole just ahead of the grip, swing it up into the track and then slide it forward until the little front tab seats. You can hold it in the track without seating the tab and nothing can happen, and if you take your hand away, it falls out. It could be generic or gun-keyed specific, and you can put it on a little bracelet to keep it handy.

This way, a thief would have to find your trigger (especially if it was keyed, which they might not be able to tell without trying another trigger). You can have the trigger seated in half a second, which may be enough time for you to think “maybe I should not do this”, and if you keep the trigger on your wrist or in your pocket, the kids can play with the gun till the cows come home without anyone getting hurt.

Really, I am having a hard time coming up with a downside that does not sound like a whine.
Makes good sense. Cars come with keys.
 

lizkat

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My hard-line approach is serial number registration and you are responsible for how that weapon is used, by whoever uses it. Transfer of ownership requires transfer of registration if you want to be off the hook. And theft, well, I am reluctant to grant much leeway on that. Maybe a little if you report it, but dammit, do not let your guns get snagged.

A growing problem is that most states don't have laws yet about requiring 3D-printed guns to end up with serial numbers or other means of identification for purposes of tracing.

A federal bill to that effect was introduced by a Florida Democrat in the summer of 2019 and it predictably enough ended up farmed out from the Judiciary Committee to the subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security. However, that bill went about it by trying to amend the criminal code as follows (HR 3265, June 2019) and it went nowhere fast:

Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
“(aa) It shall be unlawful for any person to intentionally distribute, over the Internet or by means of the World Wide Web, digital instructions in the form of Computer Aided Design files or other code that can automatically program a 3-dimensional printer or similar device to produce a firearm or complete a firearm from an unfinished frame or receiver.”.

Some states have passed related laws, but are focused on requiring application for licensing of a 3D printed gun or one assembled from parts. In others, including Texas, there is resistance to this idea, on grounds it would either be unenforceable or else lead to misuses of the data to create "a registry" of guns, even if only a partial one.


So our lethal folly and potential for ever more mayhem continues more or less unabated, even if a vast majority of Americans now favor sensible checks on our obsession with the right to bear arms.
 
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P_X

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A growing problem is that most states don't have laws yet about requiring 3D-printed guns to end up with serial numbers or other means of identification for purposes of tracing.

A federal bill to that effect was introduced by a Florida Democrat in the summer of 2019 and it predictably enough ended up farmed out from the Judiciary Committee to the subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security. However, that bill went about it by trying to amend the criminal code as follows (HR 3265, June 2019) and it went nowhere fast:

Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
“(aa) It shall be unlawful for any person to intentionally distribute, over the Internet or by means of the World Wide Web, digital instructions in the form of Computer Aided Design files or other code that can automatically program a 3-dimensional printer or similar device to produce a firearm or complete a firearm from an unfinished frame or receiver.”.

Some states have passed related laws, but are focused on requiring application for licensing of a 3D printed gun or one assembled from parts. In others, including Texas, there is resistance to this idea, on grounds it would either be unenforceable or else lead to misuses of the data to create "a registry" of guns, even if only a partial one.


So our lethal folly and potential for ever more mayhem continues more or less unabated, even if a vast majority of Americans now favor sensible checks on our obsession with the right to bear arms.
I have a 3D printer, and I think 3D printed guns are overblown. You'd need an industrial quality printer to forge a gun that would "survive" a single shot w/o killing the person pulling the trigger. I do think that gun regulation will be coming for 3D prints tho because that is against gun lobby interests.
 

P_X

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Posted this on reddit (will prolly be deleted but I'll post it here too):

If your gun is used in a crime, you are partially responsible. America is full of reckless gun owners who worry about the government taking their guns, yet readily lose more than 230,000 of them a year. Gun advocates should stop pretending like criminals forged their own firearms.

There, and this post isn't about 2A. 25% of guns used in crime were gifted/traded/sold by a friend/family. And if you want to tell me that many of these guns are stolen; well, these devices failed to prevent their own theft, didn't they. But really, if guns truly improved public safety, the USA would be the safest place in the Solar System. And if you try to convince me that our shameful public safety stats are driven by the victimized firearm-less masses, then why does household access to a firearm come with twice the risk of becoming the victim of homicide? And before you want to tell me that a gun is a tool for emancipation, I'll tell you that the same type of risk of victimization is triple if you happen to be a woman.
Lost guns are toxic waste that poison our communities, and polluters should take responsibility. If you've ever lost a gun, you should be as proud a gun owner as prideful it is that gunshots now kill more American children a year than cancer.
By the time you finished reading this, another asshole had just lost another gun.
----Rerefences----
Guns reported lost: https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publica...old-burglaries-and-other-property-crimes-2005
Estimate of lost guns not reported lost: https://injepijournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40621-017-0109-8
Firearm sources of convicted criminals: https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf
Household firearm access and homicide risk: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.7326/M13-1301
Guns homicides beating childhood cancer: https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMsr1804754
 

Yoused

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P_X

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Here is a delightful gun theft that left a 14y/o girl with a bullet in her belly:

Posted it to TFG... A prime example of someone leaving an AK47 and a shotgun lying around in their home.
 
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