Will this be the year Republican voters come to grips with their own party?

Chew Toy McCoy

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I believe Trump won in 2016 at least partially because the left was sick of smug corporate democrats and their meritocracy ever moving more right of center.

Now that Trump has definitively laid waste to traditional Republican values along with complicit congress members, governors, and mayors, do you think Republicans will also wake up to their party no longer being what they signed up for?
 

lizkat

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do you think Republicans will also wake up to their party no longer being what they signed up for?

Not if the Republicans can help it. They are going right to the county level all over the USA to try to create confusion in advance of the elections, resist rule changes, invent some of their own, etc. The whole point is to effect a win for the GOP in the end simply by casting doubt on everything: ballots, voting, counting... and outcome. That it end up in the courts is a holy grail.

 

Scepticalscribe

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As for Biden, he's having fun lately. Always easier if you only have to remember the truth.


Ah, yes, very good point.

And a lovely video.

Most people who are effortlessly mendacious by nature tend to be quick witted and creative as well; to be good at lying requires creativity, quick wittedness, and it also requires a very good memory, so that you can remember what lies were told to whom.

Not sure that Mr Trump has the required mental agility to be a good liar, a sophisticated liar; rather, he is a compulsive and pathological liar, which is a liar of a different order.
 

Huntn

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I believe Trump won in 2016 at least partially because the left was sick of smug corporate democrats and their meritocracy ever moving more right of center.

Now that Trump has definitively laid waste to traditional Republican values along with complicit congress members, governors, and mayors, do you think Republicans will also wake up to their party no longer being what they signed up for?
Only one event, loss of multiple seats will register. Of course some of them will double down on sinister instead, if they're fervent enough doing The Lord’s work. :oops:
 

lizkat

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Only one event, loss of multiple seats will register. Of course some of them will double down on sinister instead, if they're fervent enough doing The Lord’s work. :oops:
Still, the party's fissures will expand in the GOP among groups like the diehard Trump fans (if they flock to anything short of Trump himself), the rather cynical fans of policy on taxes and deregulation, and the "true conservatives" of which there are still a lot, even if some of those have meanwhile voted for Trump in 2016 and may do so again out of a desire for a conservative Supreme Court.

(One of McConnells wonderments is whether Rs who are in that last group will still vote for Trump if the nomination of Barrett is confirmed ahead of the election.)

How badly that ongoing internal disruption will go from 2021 onward for the Republican Party --per se, as a party listed on ballots-- will depend on things like the outcome of the presidential race, reactions to that, the outcome of Congressional races (particularly the Senate if there are some close or contested or slowwwww counts which prospect is likely) and reactions to that.

Some of the reaction to 2020 elections will be via trips to court, no doubt. But some of it will be a continuing nightmare for the Republican National Committee no matter how those matters are resolved. As has been noted after their convention in August this year, quite aside from the disruptions caused by covid-19 and an altered look and feel to both major parties' conventions, the Republicans turned their event into a love fest for Trump: the GOP's platform issues were conveniently left waiting in the wings for the poor sods who have to come up with something next time around.

The Trump era has split Republicans on fundamental policy issues like trade, health care and now on best practices for emerging from the pandemic as well. The party's a mess, and now comes Trump bringing covid-19 back into focus at the worst possible time, with early voting just commencing.

Many, perhaps most Republicans may choose not to vote by mail, for all the reported reasons including Trump's savage bashing of that mode and his crony USPS chief in there still discreetly trying to make sure things will go,...sloooowwwly. So the choice to cross party lines if they wish to do so now is still open for most of the right leaning electorate.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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In a way I feel bad for some Republicans having to accept the rapidly spreading cancer that Trump is on their party. It’s pretty well established that he doesn’t have any party loyalty and only ran as a Republican because he thought he would have a better shot and possibly because he didn’t want to run under the party of Obama. Party values mean nothing to him. Both parties are the party of big business now so his con as a successful businessman wouldn't do any better or worse as a Democrat. I think it’s accurate to say that no other President would have handled multiple crises the same way Trump did. In our little experiment with electing an outsider I don’t think we could have picked anybody worse. There’s no limit to the damage he is willing to cause if he thinks it will ultimately cause him to win reelection. He’s the living embodiment of fake surface-level patriotism and he shouldn’t have been let anywhere near a government position. He’s the poster child for failed democracy.
 

Renzatic

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Short answer: no.

Long answer: we'll need to see a lot more dead bodies lying in the streets before the Republicans have their come to Jesus moment. As long as they can conceivably deny responsibility, you can safely bet they WILL deny responsibility.
 

lizkat

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Short answer: no.

Long answer: we'll need to see a lot more dead bodies lying in the streets before the Republicans have their come to Jesus moment. As long as they can conceivably deny responsibility, you can safely bet they WILL deny responsibility.

They've handed it over already. Typical is a tweet floating around from Ted Cruz saying it's all the Dems' fault: the lockdowns, the state of schooling and Ds blocking small biz relief. He's taken his cue from Trump and owns nada in responsibility for nada.


(On the other hand Carly Fiorina just endorsed Biden and there are people tweeting rude comparisons of her nerve, so to speak, to the tiny spine, also so to speak, owned by Cruz).
 

SuperMatt

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They've handed it over already. Typical is a tweet floating around from Ted Cruz saying it's all the Dems' fault: the lockdowns, the state of schooling and Ds blocking small biz relief. He's taken his cue from Trump and owns nada in responsibility for nada.


(On the other hand Carly Fiorina just endorsed Biden and there are people tweeting rude comparisons of her nerve, so to speak, to the tiny spine, also so to speak, owned by Cruz).
Lyin’ Ted!
 

Alli

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Short answer: no.

Long answer: we'll need to see a lot more dead Republican bodies lying in the streets before the Republicans have their come to Jesus moment. As long as they can conceivably deny responsibility, you can safely bet they WILL deny responsibility.
Fixed it for ya.
 

lizkat

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GOP Majority Leader signaling: Trump's almost out on his own at this point.

Except for a still possible Barrett floor vote, sounds like the rest of the GOP are free to try to salvage whatever they can from 2020, despite Trump throwing weird knives at their prospects from his twitterbox and the grass in front of the White House...

 

iMi

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There is definitely a shift. Our neighbor and a good friend is a Christian, born-again, conservative Republican. If you have seen some of the posts I’ve made, you’ll know I am the direct opposite. We get along great and talk politics often. He is voting Biden. In fact, he’s voting blue right down the ballot. He’s still a Republican and we continue to disagree on a lot of issues, but the more we talk, the more he sees how his party has portrayed Democrats unfairly. He doesn’t recognize his party anymore. In Church, he’s been causing trouble by challenging people on being pro-life and yet doing nothing about black Americans being unjustly murdered.

Since we’ve met two years go, he’s shifted his views a lot. In fact, I am starting to worry about him. He’s composting and planting trees, he is putting in solar panels because he wants to be carbon neutral and just yesterday he told me we should have universal income. :oops: I almost screamed Benghazi, just to shake him out of it. I’m concerned he bumped his head or something... :ROFLMAO:
 

Scepticalscribe

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GOP Majority Leader signaling: Trump's almost out on his own at this point.

Except for a still possible Barrett floor vote, sounds like the rest of the GOP are free to try to salvage whatever they can from 2020, despite Trump throwing weird knives at their prospects from his twitterbox and the grass in front of the White House...


Yes, I'm wondering at what point some Republican rats (rodents?) may decide that discreetly deciding to disembark from, depart from, or otherwise leave, slink or sidle away from, a sinking ship may be preferable (in the interests of base self-preservation) than remaining aboard.
 
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lizkat

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Yes, I'm wondering at what point some Republican rats may decide that discreetly deciding to disembark from, depart from, or otherwise leave, slink or sidle away from, a sinking ship may be preferable (in the interests of base self-preservation) than remaining aboard.

Can't decide if I hope they're packing up notes for books I'll someday want to read, or just packing up personal possessions and touching up CVs in anticipation of political defeat.

I'm already concerned about what sort of transition (administrative) may occur in the event Biden-Harris team wins the election. Both the Bush 43 and Obama administrations took pains to provide clarity on process and status within the agencies at point of handover to the incoming Trump appointees.

It was an absolute necessity for the Bush and Obama groups to work together even before Obama's inauguration, thanks to the need to get economic recovery off the ground after the global financial crisis. Because of leadership on both sides at the top, and in crucial cabinet posts, there was pretty decent coordination despite differing party views on best paths forward.

At least the Obama side saw another such necessity in trying to help prepare the inexperienced Trump counterparts for a transition in late 2016, early 2017. But there was a combination of disdain for process and distrust of expertise on the Trump side that would have been comical had it not been such a harbinger of stormy weather ahead. Michael Lewis' book The Fifth Risk: Undoing Democracy took a detailed look at some of the almost unimaginable lurches that American government endured as the Trump wrecking ball set about its mission of undermining capability for policy development and cooperation among the agencies.

I shudder to think what the Biden-Harris team will have to do in order just to understand the ground they inherit from the Trump government and the most reckless presidency we've ever tolerated in our history,
 
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