With Friends Like These…

SuperMatt

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Because they cannot get enough attention, let’s have a thread all about Republicans Democrats Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

I’ll start the thread with Sinema, since it’s been all Manchin lately.

Sinema campaigned on lowering drug prices in America. Hahaha thanks for the votes, suckers!

Sinema ranks as one of Congress’ leading recipients of pharmaceutical industry donations, according to an analysis by Kaiser Health News. The Arizona Senator is not the only Democrat expressing concerns with the party’s approach to drug negotiation. A trio of centrist House lawmakers voted against the measure in the Energy and Commerce Committee this week and a fourth voted against it in the Ways and Means Committee.


She’s not alone. There are other Democrats who care more about their pharmaceutical company donors than about their constituents.

Rep. Kathleen Rice (D-N.Y.) was one of those centrists. In a letter sent to the Alliance for Retired Americans advocacy group two days after the vote, the congresswoman said she supported “the goals” of the Democratic bill to allow Medicare to negotiate lower drug prices. Unlike her past votes in favor of it, however, Rice wrote, her committee vote was not on a “clean, stand-alone bill.”

“Instead, the H.R. 3 drug pricing language was being used as a tool to offset the cost of a $3.5 trillion reconciliation bill,” Rice wrote in the letter, obtained by POLITICO. “That bill has no chance to become a law, as Democrats in the Senate have stated that a bill with such a price tag will not have the votes to pass in their chamber.”

Wait, you support the idea but you are voting against it because it’s not in its own standalone bill? WTF? Next time just use the old “dog ate my homework” excuse. It’s more believable.
 

Huntn

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Republicans wearing Democrat labels. Each must be judged not on their rhetoric, but on their actions.

I want to know how a political party controls candidates who want to run as a Democrat or a Republican, are there any controls? I suppose the candidate can make up any bs platform they want to get an endorsement from the party, but can the party say, no, you can’t run with our label because your platform does not mesh with our party?
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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It boggles my mind how this isn't a prosecutable criminal action, at minimum on par with insider trading but worse. People can avoid the stock market. In most cases people can't avoid the healthcare system. You can take care of your health but at some point shit happens to everybody.
 
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I just resent so much the fact that these two DINOs control the entire party. Everything Democrats do has to run by their filter. Every bit of legislation has to pass the "does it make Sinema and Manchin happy?" test. Fuck Sinema and Manchin.

Anyway, rant over.
 

JayMysteri0

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WTF?!!

Former President Donald Trump has asked Gov. Greg Abbott to add an election audit bill to this year’s third special session, continuing his push to cast doubts on the election results of the 2020 presidential election despite winning in Texas.

In a letter published Thursday, Trump said, “Texans have big questions about the November 2020 Elections,” and time is running out to conduct an audit of the “2020 Presidential Election Scam” because paper ballots are kept for only 22 months after an election.

“Governor Abbott, we need a ‘Forensic Audit of the 2020 Election’ added to the call,” Trump wrote. “We’re quickly running out of time and it must be done this week.”
 

Herdfan

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I will say this about Manchin: He was a great Governor. He brought both sides to the table and got things done. He didn't care what letter you had after your name if you had a good idea. He has tried to bring some of this to the Senate, but with limited success. The reason he won't vote to abolish the filibuster is because he knows it will be used by one side (right now it is the Dems, but in 15 or so short months it could be the GOP) to push legislation down the throats of the other side. He wants debate. Real debate. He wants the two sides to work together to come up with a bill that both sides can live with.

Sadly this is not how the current climate works.

As for him voting against the T3.5$ Infrastructure Bill, his constituents don't want it. So he needs to take that into consideration, especially since he only won reelection by 3% to a clown. A real candidate might have beat him.

Another thing, he and Sinema are giving cover to some Dems in purple states who would like to vote No, but are scared of Schumer or don't want to have to answer to the "other" side when they get back home.

But the solution is really simple. Find a few candidates in 2022 that can beat a Republican and make Manchin and Sinema's votes irrelevant. I understand that is going to be hard with Biden's wonderful approval ratings, but maybe..............
 

SuperMatt

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I will say this about Manchin: He was a great Governor. He brought both sides to the table and got things done. He didn't care what letter you had after your name if you had a good idea. He has tried to bring some of this to the Senate, but with limited success. The reason he won't vote to abolish the filibuster is because he knows it will be used by one side (right now it is the Dems, but in 15 or so short months it could be the GOP) to push legislation down the throats of the other side. He wants debate. Real debate. He wants the two sides to work together to come up with a bill that both sides can live with.

Sadly this is not how the current climate works.

As for him voting against the T3.5$ Infrastructure Bill, his constituents don't want it. So he needs to take that into consideration, especially since he only won reelection by 3% to a clown. A real candidate might have beat him.

Another thing, he and Sinema are giving cover to some Dems in purple states who would like to vote No, but are scared of Schumer or don't want to have to answer to the "other" side when they get back home.

But the solution is really simple. Find a few candidates in 2022 that can beat a Republican and make Manchin and Sinema's votes irrelevant. I understand that is going to be hard with Biden's wonderful approval ratings, but maybe..............
If they torpedo Biden’s agenda, it will hurt all Democrats at the polls, including Manchin and Sinema. Were I in their shoes, I would be getting a last-minute “save” for the government together while getting some kind of concession to lower the $3.5T plan to a lower number like $2.9 or something. They can be seen as getting concessions for their somewhat conservative constituents, while still showing the Democrats in their states that they will work with Biden.

As for the filibuster, the GOP has already killed it for the only thing they care about: judges. It’s naive to leave it around for legislation since the GOP shows no interest in actually passing any when they are in power.
 

JayMysteri0

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I will say this about Manchin: He was a great Governor. He brought both sides to the table and got things done. He didn't care what letter you had after your name if you had a good idea. He has tried to bring some of this to the Senate, but with limited success. The reason he won't vote to abolish the filibuster is because he knows it will be used by one side (right now it is the Dems, but in 15 or so short months it could be the GOP) to push legislation down the throats of the other side. He wants debate. Real debate. He wants the two sides to work together to come up with a bill that both sides can live with.

Sadly this is not how the current climate works.

As for him voting against the T3.5$ Infrastructure Bill, his constituents don't want it. So he needs to take that into consideration, especially since he only won reelection by 3% to a clown. A real candidate might have beat him.

Another thing, he and Sinema are giving cover to some Dems in purple states who would like to vote No, but are scared of Schumer or don't want to have to answer to the "other" side when they get back home.

But the solution is really simple. Find a few candidates in 2022 that can beat a Republican and make Manchin and Sinema's votes irrelevant. I understand that is going to be hard with Biden's wonderful approval ratings, but maybe..............
Is there recent polling on what Virginia thinks of the infrastructure bill?

What Virginia stands to gain seems to be quite a bit. While the last thing I read is that Manchin's own approval rating in VA took a dip because of his opposition to the infrastructure bill.

 

Herdfan

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They can be seen as getting concessions for their somewhat conservative constituents, while still showing the Democrats in their states that they will work with Biden.
That may work for Sinema since Biden won AZ, but Trump won WV by a huge number and Biden is hugely unpopular here (and according to polling, he isn't really popular anywhere right now). So anything that helps Biden will not go over well with his constituents.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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As for him voting against the T3.5$ Infrastructure Bill, his constituents don't want it.

From that article I posted above.

"According to a recent survey conducted by the nonprofit WorkMoney, 80% of more than 800 West Virginians polled believe Manchin—a key swing vote in the evenly divided Senate—should support the reconciliation bill, which is still taking shape in congressional committees."

We could debate how accurate that poll is, but I highly doubt it's going to lower to a percentage that justifies his stonewalling. I'd be open to seeing anything you find that disputes that.
 

Herdfan

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Is there recent polling on what Virginia thinks of the infrastructure bill?

What Virginia stands to gain seems to be quite a bit. While the last thing I read is that Manchin's own approval rating in VA took a dip because of his opposition to the infrastructure bill.
Wrong state.

But I could not find any polling on WVmetronews specifically about the infrastructure bill. But I did see one where Biden's approval in the state is a whopping 21% vs 73% disapproval. So trying to link the bill to Biden's popularity, or in this case a complete lack thereof, is not going to work.
 

JayMysteri0

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Wrong state.

But I could not find any polling on WVmetronews specifically about the infrastructure bill. But I did see one where Biden's approval in the state is a whopping 21% vs 73% disapproval. So trying to link the bill to Biden's popularity, or in this case a complete lack thereof, is not going to work.
I apologize naming the wrong state, but the article is correct.

But @Chew Toy McCoy 's article also supports my point, and what Biden's approval rate is meaningless.

It's about the infrastructure bill, and seemingly 'r's & lobbyists in support of Manchin's interference.
 

SuperMatt

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Wrong state.

But I could not find any polling on WVmetronews specifically about the infrastructure bill. But I did see one where Biden's approval in the state is a whopping 21% vs 73% disapproval. So trying to link the bill to Biden's popularity, or in this case a complete lack thereof, is not going to work.
Biden‘s approval rating and the popularity of the infrastructure bill are quite different. I believe the GOP knows this which is why they don’t want him to pass it. If he passes it, his approval will undoubtedly go up.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Has anybody seen an interview with a Democrat in their district who voted for them and agrees with what they are doing?
 

SuperMatt

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The reason he won't vote to abolish the filibuster is because he knows it will be used by one side (right now it is the Dems, but in 15 or so short months it could be the GOP) to push legislation down the throats of the other side.
I looked at the 2022 election map for the Senate. Republicans have 5 Senators retiring, including in Pennsylvania and North Carolina, which have been trending Democratic. The Dems have none.

Without a filibuster, the Dems could make DC a state. And even Puerto Rico if they wanted. And although DC is probably guaranteed Democrat for the foreseeable future, I’d suggest they put forth PR too, even though it’s possible PR could elect at least one GOP Senator.
 

JayMysteri0

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Without a filibuster, the Dems could make DC a state. And even Puerto Rico if they wanted. And although DC is probably guaranteed Democrat for the foreseeable future, I’d suggest they put forth PR too, even though it’s possible PR could elect at least one GOP Senator.
I understand the argument about being the ones who get ride of the filibuster, because American politics have always been cyclical. The problem though is the 'r's have shown they want to break anything cyclical. They will do anything to prevent them from not being in power, and will do what they must for political gain over concern for country.

So the filibuster has to go.

Yes there will be pain, with it gone when each side can exploit it gone. Right now though with the filibuster it's all about one side exploiting it, and a small group of individuals ( like Manchin & Sinema ) acting counter to the wishes of the country as a majority for their own fantasies for financial needs / obligations.

It's been said the filibuster is a relic from Jim Crow days, and we can see what group wants to use it thwart the will of the people. Especially when it comes to voting and improving of the country. Seriously major artery bridges that need to be closed because of decades of neglect, and there's a concern about price tags. Bringing reliable internet to the 'boonies' is a bad thing. ONLY wanting to audit counties in Georgia that are heavily PoC. WTF?!

Something this ambitious as the Infrastructure plan, the John Lewis voting rights act, and more have to be done NOW. Otherwise an ever more greedy fearful 'r' party will do all the can to erode democracy because they now find it inconvenient.

What Manchin is doing is for himself and those he's financially beholden to. Not for his constituents, not for his country, not even for the few remaining norms the more extreme 'r's aren't willing to flush away. If someone can provide numbers showing otherwise, I think the opinion of Manchin's own constituents says it all. Manchin is in this for him, because he's been given the spotlight and he will run with it no matter who it hurts.
 

JayMysteri0

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A followup

Elizabeth Masters isn’t a natural Joe Biden supporter. A self-described conservative who lives in Parkersburg, in deeply Republican West Virginia, she said she registered to vote in the last election so she could cast a ballot for Donald Trump.

Masters says she doesn’t approve when people “just stand for a handout” – she doesn’t think the United States should be spending money on undocumented immigrants, for example – but says anything that will “help people that are trying to do for themselves, I’m all for it”.

To that end, Masters has found herself supportive of efforts by the Biden administration to pass a $3.5tn budget proposal that is full of ambitious plans to help poorer and working class Americans on a range of social issues from childcare to healthcare.

Though vehemently opposed by Republicans and West Virginia’s own Democratic senator, Joe Manchin, there is some evidence that the proposals contained in the spending plans – which some have likened to the 1930s New Deal – are more popular among grassroots Republicans than their political representatives. That may be especially true in West Virginia, which is a poor, largely white and working class state whose residents would stand to greatly benefit from the Biden effort.

That is why Masters says she supports the Child Tax Credit, the monthly payments from the IRS given to families with children making less than $200,000. The Build Back Better plan would make the credits permanent.

Conservative backing appears even more robust in West Virginia, home of Manchin, a moderate Democrat who is one of the critical holdouts on the budget bill and whose efforts could derail the entire plan – or see large chunks of it scrapped as he balks at the budget’s price tag.

But according to the survey, 80% of more than 800 people surveyed in his home state believe he should vote to pass the bill. That includes 77% of conservatives who responded to the survey.

But Joseph A Scalise of Terra Alta, West Virginia, says politicians are out of touch.

“We’re dealing with people who are wealthy. What do they understand about people like ourselves who are trying to keep their heads above water?” said Scalise, who says he is a conservative Republican who voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020. “It’s time for them to stop having these little wars among each other and start thinking about the American people again.”

Scalise, 67, once worked as a welder in the coal mines, a good-paying job. Now he is a health aid for children with disabilities, making $13 an hour. He says he supports the Build Back Better plan because its proposed changes to healthcare will help the families he serves and improvements to the nation’s infrastructure will get more people back to work.

That sounds an awful lot like Manchin's constituents may want the infrastructure bill & he wants something else, so tough :poop: for them.
 
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