With Friends Like These…

Chew Toy McCoy

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SuperMatt

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One thing I don’t like in the criticism of her is the criticism of her clothing. There is plenty to criticize without getting petty.
 

JayMysteri0

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A little video of that interview



I love how in the interview the opening two passages have Sinema declaring her concern for businesses, then turns around claims she's concerned with the people of Arizona. That was some whiplash right there.

Also is she aware of her current approval ratings, or actually remembers what she actually campaigned on?
 

SuperMatt

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From the files of We all saw this coming:


The standoff nonetheless evinced the political divide between Biden and a member of his own party, despite Democrats’ repeated efforts over the past year to assuage Manchin’s concerns. Without his support, Senate Democrats simply lack the votes in the narrowly divided chamber to finalize their roughly $2 trillion proposal, even if they invoke special chamber rules that allow them to sidestep a GOP filibuster.
The potential political roadblocks arrived on a day when Democrats initially had sought to project a sense of optimism, believing they could steer the final piece of the president’s economic agenda to passage in the Senate roughly a month after House Democrats approved it.

“If we keep sending checks,” he said at an event hosted by the Wall Street Journal last week, “it’s going to be hard to stop the checks.”
One person familiar with the matter said Wednesday that Manchin essentially seeks to zero-out the program in the bill in his talks with Biden. A second personfamiliar with his thinking — also speaking on the condition of anonymity — said the senator is not opposed to the child tax credit specifically but rather the fuller measure’s construction and price tag.

Manchin is moving the goalposts yet again in his “negotiations” on the build back better plan. I believe he has zero intention of ever passing this legislation. They already dropped it from $3.5T down to $2T, but he refuses to vote for the smaller package.

Funny how nobody seems to know exactly what Manchin wants. How about “a source says Manchin is going to milk the limelight for as long as possible and doesn’t give a 💩 about anything except his own publicity.”

Biden is now shifting the conversation to voting rights, which tells us there is zero chance Manchin is going to sign on. Manchin can claim to be “preventing wasteful spending” if he opposes build back better. But his insistence that saving the filibuster is more important than protecting the voting rights of millions of Americans is not a good look. Biden’s plan to push that highly popular agenda is going to get Manchin bad publicity instead of good publicity. I think a good move by Biden against an obstinate obstacle to his agenda.
 
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Herdfan

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Manchin is moving the goalposts yet again in his “negotiations” on the build back better plan. I believe he has zero intention of ever passing this legislation. They already dropped it from $3.5T down to $2T, but he refuses to vote for the smaller package.

Can't speak about the other, but as far as BBB, he simply wants to know the true cost, not D.C. accounting. Several of the programs are only funded for 1-3 years, so he wants to know the true cost of funding them for the entire 10 year period. Or a guarantee that they sunset.
 

SuperMatt

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Can't speak about the other, but as far as BBB, he simply wants to know the true cost, not D.C. accounting. Several of the programs are only funded for 1-3 years, so he wants to know the true cost of funding them for the entire 10 year period. Or a guarantee that they sunset.
Multiple sources offer constantly changing and contradictory reports of what Manchin really wants, but some random dude on an Internet forum knows the real deal. Rrrrrriiiiiiight.

That is NOT all that he wants. If it was, this would already be over. After all, the CBO already released the report. So what is he waiting for? Answer: he wants to stay in the spotlight as long as possible, and gives zero 💩s about anybody but Joe Manchin. I heard he is fighting over all sorts of provisions in the bill: all the way down to some provision about how EV tax Credits work. He’s just looking for things to complain about so he can stretch this out for months for his own personal political gain. It’s out of the Ted Cruz playbook. Obstruction to get attention.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Fun factoid in there: "It's quite common in West Virginia, where a quarter of people 65 and older have no natural teeth, the highest rate of any state in the country, according to federal data."

Clearly Manchin is looking out for his own constituents who harbor a big resentment against teeth having elites and have no interest in joining their ranks. Keep doing what you do, Joe!
 

SuperMatt

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Manchin also wants to get rid of limitations on offshore oil drilling, a change made just today. Every day, there is something new he wants.

For those who insist that all Manchin wants is to “know the true cost” - well you got proven wrong in just one day.

I stick to my earlier assessment. He wants personal gain. First, publicity - that’s why each demand comes out at a slow drip paced over months. Next, financial gain, blocking provisions that threaten his coal earnings.

One consistent theme in his ever-growing list of changes: a desire to destroy the planet. He seems to have adopted the “Drill, baby, drill” motto from the 2008 Republican campaign.

From a NY Times article today:

Mr. Manchin personally profits from investments in a family coal brokerage and has resisted entreaties from his Senate colleagues and the president to support provisions in Build Back Better that are designed to wean the country from coal, gas and oil.

Mr. Manchin rejected part of the bill that would have been the single most effective tool to reduce greenhouse gases, a clean electricity program that would have rewarded power plants that switched from burning fossil fuels to solar, wind and other clean sources, and punished those that did not. He has pushed to removea provision that would impose a fee on emissions of methane, a powerful planet-warming pollutant that leaks from oil and gas wells. And he has objected to a provision that would give tax credits to consumers who purchase electric vehicles produced by union labor.

 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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Manchin also wants to get rid of limitations on offshore oil drilling, a change made just today. Every day, there is something new he wants.

For those who insist that all Manchin wants is to “know the true cost” - well you got proven wrong in just one day.

I stick to my earlier assessment. He wants personal gain. First, publicity - that’s why each demand comes out at a slow drip paced over months. Next, personal gain, blocking provisions that threaten his coal earnings.

One consistent theme in his ever-growing list of changes: a desire to destroy the planet. He seems to have adopted the “Drill, baby, drill” motto from the 2008 Republican campaign.

From a NY Times article today:




At this rate, and because of it, we should have a nice carcass of a bill ready for President Trump to sign on the first day of his second term.
 

SuperMatt

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Look at that 💩-eating grin.

But sure, it’s not about the attention at all…………. Right.

1639700880119.png
 

SuperMatt

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Manchin finally stops pretending:

“I can’t move forward. I cannot vote to continue with this piece of legislation, I just can’t,” Manchin said on Fox News Sunday, citing the impacts of rising prices, the arrival of a new coronavirus variant and other domestic and international challenges.
“I tried everything humanly possible,” Manchin added of his negotiations with Democrats including Biden. “I can’t get there … This is a no.”
Sure Joe, it’s the coronavirus’ fault. This guy’s idea of compromise is that he gets everything he wants. I think Biden didn’t put up with that crap, and that’s why the WH pivoted to voting rights. They saw through the Manchin ruse - no matter what they changed to please him, he wanted something new the next day.

What will he do for attention next? Or maybe he got home and realized the attention was doing him more harm than good?

Interesting that this “Democrat” made his announcement on Fox… Maybe he’s gonna make the party switch official. Won’t Mitch be happy if he can be Senate majority leader again?
 

Thomas Veil

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“I tried everything humanly possible to get 49 other senators and Joe Biden to do it MY way,” he added of his negotiations with Democrats, including Biden.
Fixed that for him.

I’ve come to the conclusion that he’s in the same erratic, attention-needy category as Trump.

The Democrats need to primary him. If it goes wrong and they ultimately lose the seat, well, what have they lost?

Screw him. 😡
 

SuperMatt

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Watching the Sunday news shows, some are saying that “well Manchin never changed his stance.” Um, this entire thread is full of the ever-shifting sands of Manchin‘s requirements.

Also, why is it that these people think that everybody should have done exactly what Manchin wanted, and that he shouldn’t have compromised on anything? Manchin got 290,000 votes in 2018. Biden got 81 million in 2020… and yet everybody is supposed to do whatever Manchin wants?

The argument was “‘he said $1.5 trillion and it was $1.7 trillion, and that‘s the reason; the Dems are stupid for not dropping it to $1.5 trillion.” To the talking heads spouting this nonsense: look back at Manchin’s statements and you see he wouldn’t have been happy even if it was $1.50. He is not a team player; he only cares about Joe Manchin.
 
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JayMysteri0

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Something to consider...
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1472597596103483392/

Judging from Manchin's ever shifting goal posts, I'm willing to bet he gave Biden the impression he was onboard, and Biden ran with that foolishly.



This is that time where progressives can say "I told you so", and anyone buying Manchin's b.s. looks the fool.

The new idea being floated about is piecemeal the parts of BBB, and making Manchin nut up and deny all the parts that are popular with the people specifically. By making specifics, it could focus the public on Manchin's no F's given attitude for what the people want. Because the realization is that Manchin doesn't have to do anything or want to do anything. If anything, thwarting the efforts of Biden & the rest of the democrats props his standing with those who wouldn't vote for a democrat in his state. Meanwhile there are those who foolishly cling to the thinking that having Manchin in office as a dem, keeps the office out of the hands of republicans. 🤨 I think we can see what that gets anyone.

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Just realize the obvious, you can't trust or count on Manchin or Sinema.

They're doing the same shit with voting rights as well, while mouthing how important it is to protect voting rights.

Both of them should be considered as part of the 'r' contingent, unless it's something that benefits them specifically. Dems need to make their plans in the meantime, with those considerations in mind. Dems should also be treating BOTH the same way those two have treated the Dems, when they want something down the road. This isn't about voting party in this case, when in both matters the public including the public in their states want these things. This is personal over country, papered over worries about jim crow era filibusters or a budget they gave no 'F's about earlier.
 
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SuperMatt

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Something to consider...
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1472597596103483392/

Judging from Manchin's ever shifting goal posts, I'm willing to bet he gave Biden the impression he was onboard, and Biden ran with that foolishly.



This is that time where progressives can say "I told you so", and anyone buying Manchin's b.s. looks the fool.

The new idea being floated about is piecemeal the parts of BBB, and making Manchin nut up and deny all the parts that are popular with the people specifically. By making specifics, it could focus the public on Manchin's no F's given attitude for what the people want. Because the realization is that Manchin doesn't have to do anything or want to do anything. If anything, thwarting the efforts of Biden & the rest of the democrats props his standing with those who wouldn't vote for a democrat in his state. Meanwhile there are those who foolishly cling to the thinking that having Manchin in office as a dem, keeps the office out of the hands of republicans. 🤨 I think we can see what that gets anyone.

0

Just realize the obvious, you can't trust or count on Manchin or Sinema.

They're doing the same shit with voting rights as well, while mouthing how important it is to protect voting rights.

Both of them should be considered as part of the 'r' contingent, unless it's something that benefits them specifically. Dems need to make their plans in the meantime, with those considerations in mind. Dems should also be treating BOTH the same way those two have treated the Dems, when they want something down the road. This isn't about voting party in this case, when in both matters the public including the public in their states want these things. This is personal over country, papered over worries about jim crow era filibusters or a budget they gave no 'F's about earlier.

A little refresher of the conversation in October, when many were attacking House progressives for blocking the infrastructure bill.

True, but it is The Squad who is on record holding it up. But as you mentioned, they are giving cover to some others. Just like Manchin and Sinema are,

For the BIG package yes. For the smaller $1.5T package, the Squad is the problem.

If they let the roads/bridges plan pass on its own, the big package wouldn’t even be in the news now. It would have died a long time ago.
@JayMysteri0 said it many times prior as well. Once the progressives allowed the infrastructure bill to pass, the BBB was dead. Manchin has clearly proven that he is a dishonest negotiator.
 

JayMysteri0

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NOW people can start complaining about progressives.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1472719589486301189/

Because the progressives warned this was going to happen with promises made to them, if they toed the line. NOW you've shown them what power a single ball breaker has. No one's going to be safe from whatever pent up anger they've been building. It's a team if Manchin gets what he wants or the pres can weigh what capital he wants to spend. If a part of the team wants things though, they need to toe the line and MAYBE a promise or two will be kept. Meanwhile student loan debt promises...
 
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