Zack Snyder’s “Justice League” coming to HBO Max March 18

Thomas Veil

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It's the Tom, Jerry and Snyder cut. The Justice League tries to protect Jerry, but Tom has forged an alliance with Darkseid. Chaos ensues.
 

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It's the Tom, Jerry and Snyder cut. The Justice League tries to protect Jerry, but Tom has forged an alliance with Darkseid. Chaos ensues.
Spoiler: Tweety is making a cameo! Tom is the one trying to uphold law and order and the rule of law, while Jerry is an agent of chaos.
 

SuperMatt

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Spoiler: Tweety is making a cameo! Tom is the one trying to uphold law and order and the rule of law, while Jerry is an agent of chaos.
Jerry becomes a super-mouse in one episode I recall - he drank some special milk then he got super strength. Must be the basis for this movie... :cool:
 

Pumbaa

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Jerry becomes a super-mouse in one episode I recall - he drank some special milk then he got super strength. Must be the basis for this movie... :cool:
Pretty sure that episode wasn’t shot by Joss Whedon, so there is a chance it’ll be remastered and part of the cut!

I’m sure all true fans remember Fuzzy the Krypto Mouse fondly, so it must be Snyder paying homage. I’m very excited! Otherwise I’ll start a petition for a proper remake of the Snyder Cut! We deserve this. Snyder owes us! 😁
 

Thomas Veil

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I wonder what the fanbase response will be to this?
Okay, I'll go first. Wandering in where angels fear to tread.

It's an interesting idea, and my personal feelings about it are a little mixed.

I'm a fairly stodgy traditionalist where heroes are concerned. I was highly annoyed when Jim Phelps, who was a good guy on TV's Mission: Impossible, was turned into a villain in the first movie, for example. There was no point to it other than wiping away any trace of the old so that it could become the Tom Cruise show.

I'm also not much in favor of changing traditionally white male characters to black, women, Hispanic or whatever, just to prove you're woke. If that makes me racist in some people's eyes...well, who knows? Maybe a little part of me is. But to me, race/gender-swapping smacks a little of pandering. It's not horrible, it's just a lazy way of introducing diversity to comic books and movies. It's a lot harder to come up with an original minority hero than it is to co-opt an existing one. It can be done, however, and done well. See: Black Panther.

Now, Superman may be an interesting exception, simply because he's from another world. Assuming the actor will be portraying Clark Kent...who's to say Kryptonians weren't black? The idea of Superman's apart-ness, being among us but not one of us, has obviously been explored before. This could only play well into that concept. To me, Superman's predominant characteristic isn't as much his skin color as it is the fact that he's the world's biggest Boy Scout. I think as long as they play it that way, this could be a good movie. As always, execution will count for a lot.

I do hear, however, they might go the route of having him be an alternate-Earth Superman, a guy named Calvin Ellis. I really don't know anything about the character, so I can't really address that. I just know that either way, white nationalist types will probably be incensed at what they view as yet another example of political correctness gone loco, while the rest of us will just deal and enjoy the movie as long as it's a good movie.
 

JayMysteri0

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Early reviews are in, and so far they’re pretty good. One is positively ecstatic.


I just hope that after all this time it’s not a letdown. I hate it when a movie is preceded by months of fan-based hype, only to fall short of it. (“Snakes On a Plane”, anyone?)
You've read different reviews then I have. :giggle:

My first one read still wonders why it was done, because of what's done in the movie & the pointlessness ( I don't want to give it away ) of it all.

Others just say it's a longer film. With that runtime, things are of course expanded story wise, but it doesn't necessarily make it a good film. Just a better film than was released. In all honesty the bar to hit for a better film then the one released is so low, I can't think of an analogy that doesn't break the laws of physics to describe how easy that would be to reach.


I think what will separate one's views of the film is if one is aware of the backstory to it. How important the man Zack Snyder is to that story. Also how important a branch of fandom is to the fact that the film even exists. Meaning if you're a Snyderbronie the movie is already a success even before you've watched it. If you judge it by the baggage of some of the more toxic bronies, not so much. What is a repeated question in many reviews is what this film itself tells those fans? There's also of course Snyder's interpretation of the DC Universe and whether it's ultimate successful.
 

Thomas Veil

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I’m trying not to get too revved up in advance, but the final pre-release trailer looks awesome. 😮

 

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I will be watching it with no preconceptions, and strictly as entertainment for the sake of entertainment.
Amen to that!

Fully agree with strictly as entertainment for the sake of entertainment. I would very much like to watch it with no preconceptions but I’m only human... Will try my best though, I usually enjoy things more that way. 😊
 

Thomas Veil

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Well, I spent this afternoon watching ZSJL in two two-hour chunks. I posted my lengthier thoughts about the movie here. But it's a much different movie than the original, and a much better one. Zack Snyder approaches this film as if it's his magnum opus, and it shows on the screen.

I gotta hand it to him. He teased out first some information about his version, then some diagrams, then some stills, then some short clips. He really knew how to build up a fan campaign to get this film made. And it was worth it.
 

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I’ve made it through the first two hours. Saving the rest for tomorrow. Trying not to make up my mind until I’ve seen all four hours of ... entertainment.
 

Alli

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We sat through all 4 hours last night. Gotta say that the time flew by. I think it was faster than the 3 hours of Infinity War. Other than occasionally having to remind my husband who various characters were and their relationships to each other, it was a great watch.

The epilogue was too long. That is my only real complaint. It could have been cut in half. Would have been nice if the “Martian Manhunter” had offered help earlier. But I guess he only made an appearance to set up the next movie.
 

Thomas Veil

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Earlier in the thread, Jay mentioned this story:


It totally lays out where Snyder was going to go from the epilogue onward. (If you hold out hope these movies still might come out, don't click on that link. Snyder says he's also contemplating telling the full story in book form.)

Anyway. Snyder's movie does have the feel of a multi-part superhero epic, and based on that, I would totally go see those other movies. ZSJL went by fast for me, too. It was four hours, but never once was I bored, even during the scenes I'd already seen in the 2017 release. I've sat through movies that were two hours that had me frequently glancing at my watch.

Unlike Jay, I'm even down with the Batman/Lois storyline, especially since that explains the scene in BvS where Flash tells Batman that "Lois is the key."

The scene where Batman tells Joker, "I will fucking kill you."

Batman never says something he doesn't mean.

This has been an amazing ride. Not only did fan pressure get this film made, but it actually turned a lousy film into a great one. That says everything you know about how studios can fuck up one man's artistic vision.

As I write this, the film has an 8.5/10 rating on IMDb and a 96% positive audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I know that initially the fans are going to bombard those sites with reviews, but I don't really expect them to go down much.
 

JayMysteri0

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Earlier in the thread, Jay mentioned this story:


It totally lays out where Snyder was going to go from the epilogue onward. (If you hold out hope these movies still might come out, don't click on that link. Snyder says he's also contemplating telling the full story in book form.)

Anyway. Snyder's movie does have the feel of a multi-part superhero epic, and based on that, I would totally go see those other movies. ZSJL went by fast for me, too. It was four hours, but never once was I bored, even during the scenes I'd already seen in the 2017 release. I've sat through movies that were two hours that had me frequently glancing at my watch.

Unlike Jay, I'm even down with the Batman/Lois storyline, especially since that explains the scene in BvS where Flash tells Batman that "Lois is the key."

The scene where Batman tells Joker, "I will fucking kill you."

Batman never says something he doesn't mean.

This has been an amazing ride. Not only did fan pressure get this film made, but it actually turned a lousy film into a great one. That says everything you know about how studios can fuck up one man's artistic vision.

As I write this, the film has an 8.5/10 rating on IMDb and a 96% positive audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes. I know that initially the fans are going to bombard those sites with reviews, but I don't really expect them to go down much.
My biggest complaint with the Snyder movies, remains his approach to Batman.

Batman is the smartest guy in the room always. In these movies, Batman is a guy dressed in a silly suit, completely out of place. Literally one of the source materials being copped by Snyder, has Batman facing Darkseid solo.

Batman is NOT a guy in a silly suit shooting guns. That was the Phantom. The Shadow at least dressed up.

As a big Batman fan, that always takes me completely out of the Snyder films,
 

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Batman is the smartest guy in the room always. In these movies, Batman is a guy dressed in a silly suit, completely out of place. Literally one of the source materials being copped by Snyder, has Batman facing Darkseid solo.
One of my favorite lines in the movie, when asked what his superpower is Bruce Wayne replies “I’m really rich.”
 

JayMysteri0

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One of my favorite lines in the movie, when asked what his superpower is Bruce Wayne replies “I’m really rich.”
Yeah.

From a Snyder viewpoint, that is a super power.

From the actual character viewpoint, it was* a convenience.

In the books, they made a great case that even though he is Superman, Superman respects how formidable Batman is. Which is why in the books he gives Bruce some kryptonite, because out of EVERYONE else he knows Batman will figure out how to take out Superman when others would fail.



* I said was, because Bruce has since lost his fortune and in the books works out of the basement of the house of a conspiracy nut. Yes, true. More fun, the architect for Bruce's current state, looks like a comic book knock off of Steve Jobs. Bruce's fortune was stolen by of all people Catwoman pulling her greatest theft, while working with the Joker and Bats rogue gallery. But that's comic book geek stuff...


Simon Saint
 

Thomas Veil

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Since ZSJL left me wanting more, I went back to “Batman v. Superman - Ultimate Edition”, which I’d never seen before. It too is an improved movie, which to me proves that while Snyder is not perfect, the bigger culprit here is Warner forcing him to cut down his movies to fit a predetermined length.

Snyder is obviously not that kind of director. Like Stephen King, his style of storytelling is grandiose and involved. There’s an article here that explains the differences, but one in particular relates directly to “Justice League”...

Remember the scene where Luthor, in jail, says that the bell has rung and something is coming from space? How did Luthor know that? Well, here we see the Kryptonian ship clearly show him (and us) an image of Steppenwolfe. Now it makes more sense!

There are several other scenes which make the actions more clearly motivated instead of seeming like the result of some kind of prescience.

I do admit that unlike ZSJL, the first half of this edition of BvS is slow. It’s still worth checking out, though, for its improved coherence.
 

JayMysteri0

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Since ZSJL left me wanting more, I went back to “Batman v. Superman - Ultimate Edition”, which I’d never seen before. It too is an improved movie, which to me proves that while Snyder is not perfect, the bigger culprit here is Warner forcing him to cut down his movies to fit a predetermined length.

Snyder is obviously not that kind of director. Like Stephen King, his style of storytelling is grandiose and involved. There’s an article here that explains the differences, but one in particular relates directly to “Justice League”...

Remember the scene where Luthor, in jail, says that the bell has rung and something is coming from space? How did Luthor know that? Well, here we see the Kryptonian ship clearly show him (and us) an image of Steppenwolfe. Now it makes more sense!

There are several other scenes which make the actions more clearly motivated instead of seeming like the result of some kind of prescience.

I do admit that unlike ZSJL, the first half of this edition of BvS is slow. It’s still worth checking out, though, for its improved coherence.
I believe if you read the reviews I posted and more, most think the movie is better for it's length now. The problem of course that most also realize Snyder needs someone to edit his films to a length that's profitable in a movie theatre. Remember, one reason we get 2 hour or less movies was that theaters want the most showings they can get in a day. Four hour cuts, cut into showings. In Snyder's case, a four cut also includes A LOT of extra stuff & fetishizing. See any Snyder film that has the bullet casings hitting the floor in slo mo.

There was a tweet in my timeline that had me laughing. It said some DC Staffers did a group watch of the Snyder cut and they made it a drinking game. They had to take shots every time there was slo mo or lens flare.

They haven't finished the movie yet.

Snyder needs someone to help him focus on story & reduce when he gets carried away with showing off his visuals.

I lump him with Michael Bay & JJ Abrams where you know there's a laundry list of visuals that HAVE to be hit before the movie ends.

Did execs interfere? Oh they most definitely did, when BVsS tanked. I also believe the fact that they rushed into BVsS is the execs fault. There should have been a Superman film, Batman film ( technically according to their timeline Batman first, Superman second, WW is interchangeable because of her ALWAY having been around ), Wonder Woman film, and THEN Justice League. The escalation of the stakes makes more sense with costumed guy who ( for almost a decade? ) fights guy in clown make up & a suit that kills people in worst crime ridden city EVAH. To guy in cape who fights other aliens that levels a city. Then they clash & meet someone as formidable if not more in WW in that film, and we learn about her afterward. But WB execs wanted to skip to the payoff that Feige & Marvel built to. So we had a film that was overly crammed that was just a set up for Justice League. No organic growth whatsover, just concern for the quick cash grab payoff. When that crapped the bed, execs panicked, and tried to course correct when they couldn't steer left on a Nascar track. So we got desperation, tragedy, & Josh Whedon. Which we would finally end up with no plan whatsover, and just make films.

Which has so far, worked for them with WW and Shazam / true Captain Marvel.



The Snyder cut opens up other issues though, as the Snyder Bros see this as some kind of triumph, and are calling for a JL Gray edition, and because Snyder teased a tease he knows he couldn't fill, claims of continuing in a comic book... maybe. Which of course is playing the rubes for a return to the actual films, that WB execs won't have the stomach to foot the bill.
 
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