Hamas has launched a major attack on Israel

[Alli]

I’m not making excuses for Hamas or Israel.
It’s not BS but an historical fact. It displaced a huge number of Palestinians. And what happened after? Multiple wars centered on this occurance in itself, not a Jewish state put out in an empty expanse of land, but a new state placed in the middle of a Muslim populated area. Not helping was Israel treating Palestine with a heavy hand for decades. Hence constant conflict based on that fact.

I have to ask why the majority Muslim countries want nothing to do with the Palestinians?

Several majority Muslim countries offered them space and a home. They refused.

At one time Israel was nothing but desert. The Israelis worked hard to tame it and became world leaders in irrigation and hydroponics. That was when the “Palestinians” started wanting the land.

Can anyone show me in any historical context where Palestine is? Can anyone show me in some historical context (even the Christian bible) when the word “Palestine” was first used?

 

[Huntn]

Several majority Muslim countries offered them space and a home. They refused.

At one time Israel was nothing but desert. The Israelis worked hard to tame it and became world leaders in irrigation and hydroponics. That was when the “Palestinians” started wanting the land.

Can anyone show me in any historical context where Palestine is? Can anyone show me in some historical context (even the Christian bible) when the word “Palestine” was first used?

Alli, I like you, I consider you an online friend and don’t want to argue. I have no prejudice against Jews, believe in and horrified by the Holocaust and have zero interest in being mean or unfair to Israel, just observing these events as I see them.

Though out the 90s and early 2000s, I read a stream of stories of how Israel ruled over Gaza with a heavy hand making it difficult for their economy. There might have been opportunities to resolve this conflict, but it seems that Israel was overly concerned with its security, and some number of Palestinians had no intention of forgiving Israel of its behavior.

What Hamas did was horrible, what Israel is doing in Gaza is (if you want to look at numbers) is 10x horrible, especially when you look at the figures regarding women and children and the total disregard for collateral damage. Gaza is millions of Palestinians, and a good bit of it is destroyed. Israel was stopping all aid going into Gaza, my understanding is that more aid/humanitarian even UN workers have been killed in this war than any war, I guess the World Kitchen incident was the last straw to some degree. Do we see the world rallying around Israel for its conduct?. No, the opposite.

Early in the conflict, you said “what else could they do”? The only viable solution was to target Hamas where they cound without extreme collateral damage. Israel was not given a blank check to flush Geneva Conventions. If extreme collateral damage is unavoidable, the only other solution is to negotiate. Because of the extreme amount of death and destruction in Gaza, the world and Israel’s allies are turning against them as far as support for the conduct of this war, not rallying on their behalf.

Arabs in the region found the creation of a Jewish State by Western powers to be unacceptable and threatened war, and there was war, many wars. Varing degrees of a state of conflict has existed ever since. Just because different religions? As far as your premise that Israel was all uninhabited desert before it was handed to them:

UN marks 75 years since displacement of 700,000 Palestinians​

UN marks 75 years since displacement of 700,000 Palestinians

The UN on Monday commemorated for the first time in its history, the mass displacement of Palestinians from land that was to become Israel, 75 years ago, that turned 700,000 Palestinians into refugees, almost overnight.

news.un.org

What are the roots of the Israel-Palestine conflict?

Recent events are the culmination of a decades-long clash in the disputed region of the Middle East

www.theguardian.com

 

[Citysnaps]

What Hamas did was horrible, what Israel is doing in Gaza is (if you want to look at numbers) is 10x horrible, especially when you look at the figures regarding women and children and the total disregard for collateral damage.

Exactly. The IDF had/has a wide spectrum of choices/methods available in how to go about eliminating hamas. So far, their leadership has chosen a scorched Earth policy, where innocent civilians deaths and horrific maiming are viewed as mere collateral damage. That choice, prioritizing enemy kill efficiency over preserving innocent life is unacceptable. I'm glad Biden has finally stepped up in condemning that approach.

Everyday, if I'm home, I watch the PBS News Hour (and Amanpour and Company) at 3pm. Their Gaza coverage with seasoned journalists and film crews on the ground covering the everyday destruction is, in a word, appalling.

 

[Huntn]

I have to ask why the majority Muslim countries want nothing to do with the Palestinians?

Do they? My guess is that some number of Palestinians believe that if they leave Gaza they will become stateless (chance of having a state) even though much of Gaza is a pile of rubble and being there is hazardous to their health.

 

[Huntn]

I hope and pray there's come a time when I can leave the place I live to "miss" it, because as much as there are things I enjoy, its a bland and uneventful city. Which can be a good thing at times, but not always. This place is as culturally diverse as a Mormon bible study.

So yeah, maybe its a religious or spiritual thing, which I also lack. I have no connection to place.

Where do you live? I grew up in Maryland and remain psychologically attached to it for decades. Lived in Minnesota for 3 decades and still feel a little connected there but that is based on my physical location, nothing more. Texas? living here now, zero connection.

 

[Alli]

UN marks 75 years since displacement of 700,000 Palestinians

Again, please. Stop with the 1948 as the start of everything.

And I’m still waiting for historical sources on Palestine as a nation or a people.

 

[Citysnaps]

'Not another nickel!' Bernie Sanders calls for end to Israel aid.

I’ve always admired Sanders for his no BS forthright views and analysis. Eighty two years old and sharp as a tack. He would have been an outstanding President in 2016. And today.

No weaseling from this guy. That's so refreshing with many politicians hedging trying hard to not offend.

 

[Eric]

'Not another nickel!' Bernie Sanders calls for end to Israel aid.

I’ve always admired Sanders for his no BS forthright views and analysis. Eighty two years old and sharp as a tack. He would have been an outstanding President in 2016. And today.

No weaseling from this guy. That's so refreshing with many politicians hedging trying hard to not offend.

Hard not to agree, seems like we're essentially sponsoring genocide at this point. It was one thing when they were surgical about it but they're just carpet bombing and leveling the entire Gaza strip. I mean they're still blocking aid, not allowing reporters, etc. how TF is America still backing this?

IMO it would be no different if we were funding Russia and their invasion of Ukraine.

 

[Huntn]

Again, please. Stop with the 1948 as the start of everything.

And I’m still waiting for historical sources on Palestine as a nation or a people.

Why are you waiting? You’ve heard the term Palestinians and two state solution.What relevant point are you making that governs Israel’s mistreatment of people living in Gaza? I’ve not ever said 1948 was the start of “everything”, it was the start of Israel in conflict with all of its neighbors. I had penned a longer response, but have decided that disengagement is the best course of action because you don’t seem to willing to accept any critiques regarding Israel in this conflict and I don’t want to argue with you about it any longer.

 

[Huntn]

'Not another nickel!' Bernie Sanders calls for end to Israel aid.

I’ve always admired Sanders for his no BS forthright views and analysis. Eighty two years old and sharp as a tack. He would have been an outstanding President in 2016. And today.

No weaseling from this guy. That's so refreshing with many politicians hedging trying hard to not offend.

I‘ve always admired him. I wonder if anyone is calling Bernie a JINO?

 

[Citysnaps]

I wonder if anyone is calling Bernie a JINO?

Netanyahu, maybe?

 

[Herdfan]

Again, please. Stop with the 1948 as the start of everything.

And I’m still waiting for historical sources on Palestine as a nation or a people.

Would love to see that materialize out of thin air as well.

 

[GermanSuplex]

It’s the birthplace of Judaism, which gave rise to the other big two religions. It’s all spinoff Judaism. Regardless of what you think of land disputes, it makes sense that a religious and racial group whose history in that region goes back to the cradle of civilization would consider it “theirs”, in as much as one feels that way about land.

That said, I have no answers on a solution when the modern day reality is two groups with vastly different religious practices and views both think something is divinely theirs. This war is probably not going to help the conflict, and may give rise to a host of new ones. For that, I lay blame directly on the terrorists who attacked last year, and their enablers, because there was never going to be a response from Israel that wouldn’t draw a huge backlash.

Of course, I still think Netanyahu has gone too far, but at the same time, it almost seems like the terrorists and their shelter nations get a pass because we just expect the worst from them anyways. It’s a very complex and messy situation and I really have not a clue on anything that would work beyond some sort of kumbaya miracle.

 

[Eric]

Pro Palestinian protesters are jamming up all the major arteries in the San Francisco Bay Area, people have been stuck for several hours, many have had to abandon their cars. I'll never understand how they think this will help you make your point, literally the entire city is going to hate you for something like this. Nobody will ever say "oh, they stranded me for hours and NOW I get their point". Not a single person.

 

[Citysnaps]

people have been stuck for several hours, many have had to abandon their cars.

What really sucks is their cars will likely be towed and stored somewhere. And it will cost $$$$ to get your car back, after you've been notified (which will take time).

 

[GermanSuplex]

Redneck lanky “tough guy” Tom Cotton head is acting like Paul Gosar or some other insufferable GOP racist red neck.

This is way over the top, even for the cult. Glad to see he’s ok with and would cheer on what happened to Ashley Babbitt though.

 

[Citysnaps]

It looks like San Francisco's DA will be going forward with felony false imprisonment charges for those blocking the Golden Gate Bridge on Monday. And asking for restitution for commuters financially impacted.

It's not clear in the story if she'll go forward with the conspiracy charges that the protestors were charged with when arrested by the CHP.

Are commuters crime victims? SF’s district attorney thinks so

San Francisco’s DA is trying to turn commuters stuck in traffic into crime victims of Palestine solidarity protesters.

sfstandard.com

 

[GermanSuplex]

It looks like San Francisco's DA will be going forward with felony false imprisonment charges for those blocking the Golden Gate Bridge on Monday. And asking for restitution for commuters financially impacted.

It's not clear in the story if she'll go forward with the conspiracy charges that the protestors were charged with when arrested by the CHP.

Are commuters crime victims? SF’s district attorney thinks so

San Francisco’s DA is trying to turn commuters stuck in traffic into crime victims of Palestine solidarity protesters.

sfstandard.com

Well, like I said earlier, I’m torn. I get it, it IS a nonviolent form of protest, and some of them are meant to be more than heard, but felt. Still, I don’t see it being endearing to those trying to get somewhere. Self-interest is a strong motivator to stick up a middle finger, even if you agree with their overall point.

You can ruin a lot of people’s day in a less aggravating fashion - plan ahead. The city will block the roads for you. You’ll inconvenience a lot of people, but when there’s cops, road blocks, detour signs and such… it’s far more digestible. And it won’t get you hit with charges.

 

[Citysnaps]

I get it, it IS a nonviolent form of protest, and some of them are meant to be more than heard, but felt.

I view it as a form of imprisonment, denying a person's freedom.

What if you're walking on a sidewalk in a city's downtown, and all of a sudden you're encircled by a dozen protestors who will not let you out of their circle for a few hours? Same thing.

The Golden Gate Bridge has open pedestrian and bike walkways on the sides adjacent to the traffic lanes (I've used them many times). I have no issue if the protesters with signs instead used the pedestrian walkways. Their message would still have gotten out in full view of the traffic driving by. I suspect many drivers would have honked in approval.

 

[GermanSuplex]

I view it as a form of imprisonment, denying a person's freedom.

What if you're walking on a sidewalk in a city's downtown, and all of a sudden you're encircled by a dozen protestors who will not let you out of their circle for a few hours? Same thing.

The Golden Gate Bridge has open pedestrian and bike walkways on the sides adjacent to the traffic lanes (I've used them many times). I have no issue if the protesters with signs instead used the pedestrian walkways. Their message would still have gotten out in full view of the traffic driving by. I suspect many drivers would have honked in approval.

Hey, I don't disagree. I said the same thing. Now, as opposed to looting or rioting - yeah, block a road all day. I'm not in favor of it, for the reasons you mentioned and also my own selfish reasons - I don't want to be blocked. Move the f*** out of my way, and that goes doubly-so if I already somewhat agree with you.

Like I said, there's a part of me that "gets" this - if not the actual action of the blocking, at least the non-violent sentiment. But this is only going to piss people off - not endear them to your cause, which is the goal.