Tesla 'full self-driving' triggered 8-car crash on Bay Bridge, driver tells police

[Eric]

Tesla 'full self-driving' triggered 8-car crash on Bay Bridge, driver tells police

The driver told police their Tesla's "full-self-driving" software braked unexpectedly and triggered the eight-car pileup that led to nine people being treated for minor injuries last month, according to a CHP traffic crash report.

abc7news.com

The report states that the Tesla Model S was traveling at about 55 mph and shifted into the far left-hand lane, but then braked abruptly, slowing the car to about 20 mph. That led to a chain reaction that ultimately involved eight vehicles to crash, all of which had been traveling at typical highway speeds.

Sounds like phantom braking and when it happens it's jarring AF and comes out of nowhere for no apparent reason.

 

[Nycturne]

I didn’t even know phantom braking was a thing until now. Now I see that Tesla has been seeing a surge of complaints on it in the latter half of the year.

That’s kinda scary.

 

[rdrr]

Tesla 'full self-driving' triggered 8-car crash on Bay Bridge, driver tells police

The driver told police their Tesla's "full-self-driving" software braked unexpectedly and triggered the eight-car pileup that led to nine people being treated for minor injuries last month, according to a CHP traffic crash report.

abc7news.com

Sounds like phantom breaking and when it happens it's jarring AF and comes out of nowhere for no apparent reason.

With Elon missing from the helm, who will bury this story?

 

[Roller]

Truth is, the state of the art is mostly autonomous driving level 2, with only a few companies, like Mercedes-Benz, about to release cars with level 3 capabilities. This despite Tesla's misleading choices of names like AutoPilot and Full Self Driving. The problem with current systems is that they encounter situations where they can't decide what to do and suddenly brake or do other things that are dangerous. From the driver's perspective, if you have to keep your hands on the wheel or hover your foot above the brake pedal, it's more stressful than doing everything yourself.

I think level 2 is more useful in freeway driving, where systems like GM's SuperCruise can lessen the tedium of long distance travel under the right conditions, though I wonder how well they cope with sudden, unexpected issues like a blown tire or an obstacle appearing in the car's path.

Here's a balanced review of Tesla's FSD beta:

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Recommended software update: This update corrects a bug where under certain situations the windshield wipers activate instead of the brakes. But don't worry, Elon assures us that with this update you should be able to drive from Los Angeles to New York City totally hands-free. In fact, why not take a nap along the way?

 

[Eric]

Bottom line is you cannot trust this car to drive itself, I had high hopes for it when I first purchased it but have learned that it simply cannot be trusted in that way, even at a basic level that should be safe. It can augment your experience really well but they oversell the actual self-driving aspect of it. I'll just say that even when you have your hands on the wheel and just have active cruise control enabled that phantom braking at freeway speeds is downright scary.

 

[rdrr]

Bottom line is you cannot trust this car to drive itself, I had high hopes for it when I first purchased it but have learned that it simply cannot be trusted in that way, even at a basic level that should be safe. It can augment your experience really well but they oversell the actual self-driving aspect of it. I'll just say that even when you have your hands on the wheel and just have active cruise control enabled that phantom breaking at freeway speeds is downright scary.

The biggest hurdle that AI still has to overcome is quick reasoning where there is a medium sized object in the road. Is it a rock to avoid or a paper bag to run over?

 

[Eric]

The biggest hurdle that AI still has to overcome is quick reasoning where there is a medium sized object in the road. Is it a rock to avoid or a paper bag to run over?

It does it when there is nothing in the road, literally no cars or objects which makes it even scarier because at least you would expect it under those circumstances. It's out of nowhere.

 

[rdrr]

It does it when there is nothing in the road, literally no cars or objects which makes it even scarier because at least you would expect it under those circumstances. It's out of nowhere.

And I find it odd that people are ok to pay the extra $$$ for it. I wouldn't trust it after one time of experience that, plus even though I love technology and work with it daily. I am skeptical with AI/Machine Learning. I have seen technology fail in the weirdest and most unexpected ways in my long career.

 

[Eric]

And I find it odd that people are ok to pay the extra $$$ for it. I wouldn't trust it after one time of experience that, plus even though I love technology and work with it daily. I am skeptical with AI/Machine Learning. I have seen technology fail in the weirdest and most unexpected ways in my long career.

Most are wise enough not to pay for it, it's been "beta" since day one and he's unable to get it past regulation because there are so many accidents, not to mention you have to have a near perfect driving score and drive like the little old lady from Pasadena to even qualify for a feature YOU paid for . Anyone who pays for that package is a sucker and may as well flush that money down the toilet, or in this case into Elon's pocket.

 

[Herdfan]

The biggest hurdle that AI still has to overcome is quick reasoning where there is a medium sized object in the road. Is it a rock to avoid or a paper bag to run over?

Sometimes that is hard for a human to discern.

 

[Roller]

Sometimes that is hard for a human to discern.

True, and sometimes it's not safe to stop or swerve if you don't see the obstacle until you're almost there. One of the arguments I've heard in favor of autonomous driving is that they'll be safer and more consistent than humans, on average. But I think that'll be a hard sell, at least until the systems are more advanced. In the meantime, they're good in limited situations.

 

[Herdfan]

True, and sometimes it's not safe to stop or swerve if you don't see the obstacle until you're almost there. One of the arguments I've heard in favor of autonomous driving is that they'll be safer and more consistent than humans, on average. But I think that'll be a hard sell, at least until the systems are more advanced. In the meantime, they're good in limited situations.

I am sure they are better now, but when my daughter at 16 or 17 was in my mom's 2011 E550 with the Distronic cruise control set driving down the interstate and a car pulled over in front of her and the car hit the brakes so hard that she almost got rear-ended. They are probably better now, but she has it turned off in her 2017 GLA.

 

[Roller]

I am sure they are better now, but when my daughter at 16 or 17 was in my mom's 2011 E550 with the Distronic cruise control set driving down the interstate and a car pulled over in front of her and the car hit the brakes so hard that she almost got rear-ended. They are probably better now, but she has it turned off in her 2017 GLA.

Assisted driving systems have certainly improved based on my experience with 2011, 2017, and 2021 vehicles. But it's my impression that they're sometimes too aggressive in avoiding collisions, which sometimes happens in reverse. I used to have my car set to apply the brakes if it detected an imminent rear collision. But it sometimes interpreted a slight upward slope backing into my garage as an obstacle and slammed on the brakes, so I disabled it.

 

[Roller]

And now...

Tesla recalling up to 362,000 cars over self-driving risk, agency says

The Tesla cars are equipped with Full Self-Driving Beta software, the NHTSA said.

abcnews.go.com

IMO, calling the feature "Full Self Driving" is fraudulent. But, while I'd be OK editing photos with a beta version of Photoshop (with backups), there's no way I'd trust beta software with my life by letting it drive my car.

 

[Eric]

And now...

Tesla recalling up to 362,000 cars over self-driving risk, agency says

The Tesla cars are equipped with Full Self-Driving Beta software, the NHTSA said.

abcnews.go.com

IMO, calling the feature "Full Self Driving" is fraudulent. But, while I'd be OK editing photos with a beta version of Photoshop (with backups), there's no way I'd trust beta software with my life by letting it drive my car.

It is totally fraudulent and anyone paying for it is getting taken to the cleaners, I'm surprised more people aren't suing as it's the biggest automobile scam ever perpetrated.

First, you have to pay $15K just to have the ability to apply for it, then you must wait as your impossible for any normal human being score to reach their unobtainable driving score just for the chance to enter the beta program. Then, if/when you get it you have to drive like the most annoyingly paranoid grandma to maintain it, all as your car is pissing everyone else off on the road who drives normally.

I seriously saw one stop a half a block away as I crossed the street and it wouldn't start back up for the driver for at least 20 seconds after I had crossed. Nothing is worth that, even if they paid me.

Also, they make you keep your hands on the wheel and head up at all times or it will disengage. I get the safety aspects but what's the point of having a "full" self-driving if you're essentially babysitting it the entire time as much as if you were in full control yourself.

The bottom line is Tesla is nowhere near ready for this technology and despite the promises of Musk, has never been. He's a snake oil salesman and nothing more. If one wants this car as an electric vehicle it makes sense, if it's for the automation it's not worth it.