Biden won. For reals this time.

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Because this is a cult and nothing ever phases them, they’ll just say if Biden won by a bigger margin than originally thought, how many counties did PRESIDENT TRUMP win by larger margins than reported? We need more audits to STOP THE STEAL.

Theyre not going to just say “oh wow, guess I was wrong”. They’ll just twist it as proof for their agenda, and move on to the next freak show.

Are you suggesting that the complete lack of proof isn’t proof that Trump won? The only way they’ll believe that Trump didn’t win is if Democrats admit he did because they are liars. 4D Chutes and Ladders.

 

[SuperMatt]

This article gets a bit more into the details concerning the “audit” results. One thing I didn’t know was that Maricopa county officials have already rebutted every claim of irregularities from the Cyber Ninjas “audit.”

Republican Review of Arizona Vote Fails to Show Stolen Election (Published 2021)

The criticized review showed much the same results as in November, with 99 more Biden votes and 261 fewer Trump ones.

www.nytimes.com

https://twitter.com/maricopacounty

And a very simple thing stuck out to me that indicates that the Cyber Ninjas don’t even know the basics about election law. Below is a recommendation from their report, followed by a response pointing out a very basic fact they should have been aware of.

6.3.1.3 Recommendation: voter roles be validated 30 days or more prior toan election

That timeline clashes with the Federal National Voter Registration Act of 1993, which prohibits removing any voter registration file 90 days ahead of a federal election.

 

[Alli]

This kind of coverage could be good in that it reminds voters that this is the exact shit they are going to pull in 2022. So this isn’t going to be the midterms that Democrats should pass on voting. Leave no doubt who won.

Right now elections matter more than ever. Especially little local elections.

 

[Roller]

This would all be tragically funny if these "audits" didn't represent an attack on our democracy. For the most part, they know Trump lost and don't really expect a different result. The aim is to sow mistrust in our electoral system so that no Republican loss will ever be considered legitimate by their base. It also deflects criticism away from the Republican party's abject failure to propose or pass legislation that can measurably improve the lives of Americans and their implementation of policies and executive orders that harm the people they're sworn to serve. With few exceptions, they are only interested in remaining in power for its own sake and to enrich themselves when they can.

But I blame Democrats in Congress for being too stupid and/or selfish to mount a strong response during the short time they have, especially on voting rights, infrastructure, and climate change. They were handed a gift when Warnock and Ossoff won in Georgia, and they are squandering it at our collective expense.

 

[SuperMatt]

This would all be tragically funny if these "audits" didn't represent an attack on our democracy. For the most part, they know Trump lost and don't really expect a different result. The aim is to sow mistrust in our electoral system so that no Republican loss will ever be considered legitimate by their base. It also deflects criticism away from the Republican party's abject failure to propose or pass legislation that can measurably improve the lives of Americans and their implementation of policies and executive orders that harm the people they're sworn to serve. With few exceptions, they are only interested in remaining in power for its own sake and to enrich themselves when they can.

But I blame Democrats in Congress for being too stupid and/or selfish to mount a strong response during the short time they have, especially on voting rights, infrastructure, and climate change. They were handed a gift when Warnock and Ossoff won in Georgia, and they are squandering it at our collective expense.

Manchin and Sinema are extremely selfish. The House has a narrow majority but is passing the types of legislation Biden voters expected. They should get “primaried” by the party. Heavily support and endorse primary opponents of them in their own states.

 

[Roller]

Manchin and Sinema are extremely selfish. The House has a narrow majority but is passing the types of legislation Biden voters expected. They should get “primaried” by the party. Heavily support and endorse primary opponents of them in their own states.

It's an open question whether another Democrat could be elected in a conservative state like West Virginia. But he's also beholden to the fossil fuel industry, which is a problem. If he and Sinema had any integrity, they'd be willing to sacrifice their political careers to pass legislation to combat existential threats to democracy and to fight climate change, or at least carve out exceptions to the filibuster to do so.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Manchin and Sinema are extremely selfish. The House has a narrow majority but is passing the types of legislation Biden voters expected. They should get “primaried” by the party. Heavily support and endorse primary opponents of them in their own states.

You would hope all the stories coming out about how their stances and voting are entirely based on their corruption with special interests period would help get them tossed out of office by their voters but that also depends on who they are running against. I get the impression that they feel only a DINO could win in their districts and that they are proud of being exactly that. Their only loyalty is to themselves.

 

[thekev]

The aim is to sow mistrust in our electoral system so that no Republican loss will ever be considered legitimate by their base.

You know, that shouldn't actually work. Their base should be able to see that virtually every one of these claims has been a road to nowhere. They should feel like idiots for buying into it and make note of that for next time. I've done plenty of stupid things once as well, but I don't double down on them indefinitely.

 

[MEJHarrison]

You know, that shouldn't actually work. Their base should be able to see that virtually every one of these claims has been a road to nowhere. They should feel like idiots for buying into it and make note of that for next time.

If I'm not mistaken, you're attributing far more intelligence to these people than is warranted by the evidence that has been presented to us thus far.

 

[thekev]

If I'm not mistaken, you're attributing far more intelligence to these people than is warranted by the evidence that has been presented to us thus far.

It's simple enough to show how much nonsense was contained in those accusations. Ignoring the ones with misuse of statistics, remaining examples aren't particularly hard to grasp. I can find a few amusing quotes though.

I wouldn't go as far as greatest here and I'm not sure that's even meaningfully decidable, but he is an effective con man.

Why Republican voters say there’s ‘no way in hell’ Trump lost

Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. A 50-year-old chiropractor in this west Texas town, he owns a small business. He has two undergraduate degrees and a master’s degree, in organic chemistry. He attends Southcrest Baptist Church in nearby Lubbock.

www.reuters.com

Asked whether Trump might be duping his followers, he said it’s hard to fathom.

“If I’m being manipulated by Trump ... then he is the greatest con man that ever lived in America,” Caleb Fryar said. “I think he’s the greatest patriot that ever lived.”

 

[Roller]

It's simple enough to show how much nonsense was contained in those accusations. Ignoring the ones with misuse of statistics, remaining examples aren't particularly hard to grasp. I can find a few amusing quotes though.

I wouldn't go as far as greatest here and I'm not sure that's even meaningfully decidable, but he is an effective con man.

Why Republican voters say there’s ‘no way in hell’ Trump lost

Brett Fryar is a middle-class Republican. A 50-year-old chiropractor in this west Texas town, he owns a small business. He has two undergraduate degrees and a master’s degree, in organic chemistry. He attends Southcrest Baptist Church in nearby Lubbock.

www.reuters.com

I don't think it's lack of intelligence in many instances. Most of us know smart people who conduct their lives in a thoughtful manner and are willing to listen to expert advice. But we are in a highly-charged, toxic situation in which too many of them are ready to buy into conspiracy theories and lies that make no sense when assessed objectively. As well, many, perhaps most, folks are poor at assessing relative risk, such as the likelihood of serious side effects from the COVID-19 vaccines vs the risk of becoming infected.

 

[Renzatic]

They should feel like idiots for buying into it and make note of that for next time.

They should.

...but they don't.

 

[lizkat]

Where do they go from there since Trump was also a rejection of the traditional party?

If the Rs had half a brain amongst the top of RNC leadership -- which they don't, since aside from McConnell and McCarthy it's Trump lackey Ronna McDaniel and a deputy who's also a Trump lackey-- they'd already have reverted to a stronger focus on post-2012's effort to appeal more strongly in retail politics to potential "blocs" like Hispanic and assorted Asian ethnic groups.

They chose instead to make an effort to recruit more Republican women to run for office. That was a start, and not without some success. Some of the female GOP House members who won or retained seats in 2018 or 2020 must be livid by now. But no one's listening to them if they do anything so radical as inquiring what the voters who elected those women might want at this point.

The RNC still allows the male hard right Trump fans among its congress critters to take all the political oxygen out of their potential spheres of influence. So the elected House Rs often come off as focused entirely on GOP talking points about Trump's "stolen" election of 2020 and "restoring" election integrity for 2022; that makes Trump happy and appeals to the diehards in his own base.

Of course the GOP does also overlook the babblings of its Senate stalwarts like Rubio and Cruz etc. No one can shut those guys up, apparently, and the media do cover them regardless of whether what they say is actually relevant to current events. None of that bodes particularly well for the GOP in 2024, but meanwhile blurs what the objectives are for 2022. It would indeed serve the Republicans right if Dem turnout for the midterms is huge and the lean-righties shrug and stay home.

 

[thekev]

I don't think it's lack of intelligence in many instances. Most of us know smart people who conduct their lives in a thoughtful manner and are willing to listen to expert advice. But we are in a highly-charged, toxic situation in which too many of them are ready to buy into conspiracy theories and lies that make no sense when assessed objectively. As well, many, perhaps most, folks are poor at assessing relative risk, such as the likelihood of serious side effects from the COVID-19 vaccines vs the risk of becoming infected.

Past a very very minimal cognitive level (acknowledging the difficulty of assigning a real metric to it), I'm not sure whether intelligence is a major factor here. I figure that personal bias and consensus among peers factors in here. As to relative risk, a lot of people also won't understand how to interpret the statistics. The probability of a specific person dying to COVID is not necessarily reflected by aggregates over the entire United States. The data will look different when controlling for population density and presumably for personal behavior, although I'm not going to speculate to what degree.

Personally, I don't like unnecessary levels of risk with minimal upsides.

They should.

...but they don't.

I've done things that were completely idiotic in retrospect. The point should be not to repeat them. I don't know what leads people to some of this crap.

 

[Alli]

You know, that shouldn't actually work. Their base should be able to see that virtually every one of these claims has been a road to nowhere. They should feel like idiots for buying into it and make note of that for next time. I've done plenty of stupid things once as well, but I don't double down on them indefinitely.

Ah, but you’re not today’s average Republican.

 

[Renzatic]

I've done things that were completely idiotic in retrospect. The point should be not to repeat them. I don't know what leads people to some of this crap.

I think it's all due to the fact that some people have invested their entire personalities into being Trump supporters. If you want a good example of the kinds of dynamics we're seeing here, look up the book When Prophecy Fails.

 

[thekev]

I think it's all due to the fact that some people have invested their entire personalities into being Trump supporters. If you want a good example of the kinds of dynamics we're seeing here, look up the book When Prophecy Fails.

That would be weird in itself. I don't build my entire identity around having voted from Biden or Obama in past elections. That would be stupid.

Ah, but you’re not today’s average Republican.

I will tell you, in my entire life, no one has ever mistaken me for a potential Republican voter.

 

[Renzatic]

That would be weird in itself. I don't build my entire identity around having voted from Biden or Obama in past elections. That would be stupid.

Despite the fact that they frequently claim to loathe identity politics, the Republican party under Trump is pretty much the de facto definition thereof.

They see themselves as Real Americans, lead by the greatest, toughest president this country has ever seen. Any evidence that runs counter to this is immediately attacked and dismissed as fake news. They won't accept anything except what they want to accept. Won't believe anything except what they want to believe.

This is why you can't reason with them. They're not arguing from any position based in reality. You are the one brainwashed by the liberal media, lead by the great lie like the good sheep you are. They're the ones fighting for America, and you, who do not worship at the alter of Trump, are their enemy.

They'll openly contradict themselves to justify their beliefs. Hence why Jan. 6th was actually a Deep State false flag operation lead by Pelosi, committed by various BLM and Antifa activists in Trump-Face, all in an attempt to further de-legitimize the REAL president after the fake election. BUT NEVER FORGET ASHLII BABBITT'S NAME! SHE DIED A MARTYR TO OUR GREAT CAUSE, AND THOSE ARRESTED ARE POLITICAL PRISONERS!

 

[Renzatic]

And let's not forget the Arizona audit, which the MSM is now lying about because the final report was just the hand count of the ballots as they were. The audit, WHICH IS STILL COMING, AND SHOWS 60,000,000 ILLEGAL VOTES, will be the REAL proof. Don't believe the media's lies! Trump won Arizona! We just can't give you REAL PROOF because they deleted the evidence!

IT’S OFFICIAL: TRUMP WON ARIZONA

If you follow the fake mainstream media you would indeed think the Maricopa audit confirmed the 2020 election results. Here’s what really happened

richardsonpost.com

 

[thekev]

And let's not forget the Arizona audit, which the MSM is now lying about because the final report was just the hand count of the ballots as they were. The audit, WHICH IS STILL COMING, AND SHOWS 60,000,000 ILLEGAL VOTES, will be the REAL proof. Don't believe the media's lies! Trump won Arizona! We just can't give you REAL PROOF because they deleted the evidence!

IT’S OFFICIAL: TRUMP WON ARIZONA

If you follow the fake mainstream media you would indeed think the Maricopa audit confirmed the 2020 election results. Here’s what really happened

richardsonpost.com

They're referencing a summary by someone else, which refers to the Cyber Ninjas audit.

I do find parts of it amusing. Apparently now, subpoenas are important?

From your link:

How do you not comply with a subpoena and not go to jail?

Also, what the hell is the Richardson Post? It's styled like it's meant to be a conservative replica of the Huffington Post, which is just so silly...

Their reference is

ExecutiveSummary VersionFinal 092421 Draft | PDF | Voter Registration | Elections

draft of AZ report

www.scribd.com

The summary claim of >50k votes in question suggests that each ballot is flagged only once in their document and that minor issues are included to reach that total. It seems to be reaching to me, and the notion in all of this is completely ridiculous.