Does the GOP even have an alternative to Trumpism?

Chew Toy McCoy

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I fear they’ve painted themselves into a corner they won’t be able to escape and Trumpism will be the complete end of the party. It won’t be the first time in our history.

Their brand of lies was already believed to spell the end when it was believed Hillary would win. Trump delivered a Hail Mary into complete lunacy. You can’t run on a brand that the system is FUBAR and be part of that system at the same time. So either they have to really break the system in ways that will seriously hurt a lot of Americans, compromise which they seem completely unwilling to do, or dismantle the party.

I don’t see another option if they plan to continue to court the Trump voter, a voter who has no respect for our institutions or government.
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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After all the sucking up to Trump they've done, can they distance themselves from him again? I think not. Trump will leave a permanent stink on them.

The Republican party is almost all lunatics now, at least on the federal level.
I think the main issue is they feel they believe a huge percentage of their base are Trump supporters and therefore have to follow his example. Also if he announces he’s going to run again in 2024 they don’t have anybody viable that will run against him.

I think a lot of this also depends on how much control he still has once out of office as will be dictated and bragged about as the country’s biggest liar.
 

Scepticalscribe

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To answer the question asked in the thread title, no, they don't, not at the moment.

I think the main issue is they feel they believe a huge percentage of their base are Trump supporters and therefore have to follow his example. Also if he announces he’s going to run again in 2024 they don’t have anybody viable that will run against him.

I think a lot of this also depends on how much control he still has once out of office as will be dictated and bragged about as the country’s biggest liar.

Re the election of 2024:

Firstly, Mr Trump may face charges, and - I cannot see him not being found guilty of at least some of these - and this may affect his reputation, such as it is.

Secondly, there is the fact that Mr Trump is neither especially young nor especially healthy; he has already had Covid, and one cannot say with any authority what his state of health - both physically and mentally (not to mention, psychologically) will be in 2024.
 
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iMi

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To answer the question asked in the thread title, no, they don't, not at the moment.



Re the election of 2024:

Firstly, Mr Trump may face charges, and - I cannot see him not being found guilty in at least some of these - and this may affect his reputation, such as it is.

Secondly, there is the fact that Mr Trump is neither especially young nor especially healthy; he has already had Covid, and one cannot say with any authority what his state of health - both physically and mentally (not to mention, psychologically) will be in 2024.

I suspect he'll flee the country. Seriously. If so, he'll become the biggest intelligence leak and therefore a national security risk.

There is another thing no one seems to be talking about. Every state in the union used paper ballots this year and signature checks. I have a feeling that the 2016 election was indeed rigged and manipulated. It would be obviously problematic for the government to acknowledge it, so they quietly fixed the problem to counter what happened. I am not the type to spread unfounded conspiracies, so this is just a hunch. Something just isn't right.

Either way... Trump lost and he'd lose again. In this cycle, both sides were equally energized. Just look at the record turnout. Plus, we're talking another four years. That's another four generations of young high school seniors who will become voters. Add to it the changing demographics in Georgia, Nevada and Texas and you'll see that reaching 270 will be even more difficult for Republicans in the future. What you'll see next is a swift re-branding of the party.
 

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I suspect he'll flee the country. Seriously. If so, he'll become the biggest intelligence leak and therefore a national security risk.

There is another thing no one seems to be talking about. Every state in the union used paper ballots this year and signature checks. I have a feeling that the 2016 election was indeed rigged and manipulated. It would be obviously problematic for the government to acknowledge it, so they quietly fixed the problem to counter what happened. I am not the type to spread unfounded conspiracies, so this is just a hunch. Something just isn't right.

Either way... Trump lost and he'd lose again. In this cycle, both sides were equally energized. Just look at the record turnout. Plus, we're talking another four years. That's another four generations of young high school seniors who will become voters. Add to it the changing demographics in Georgia, Nevada and Texas and you'll see that reaching 270 will be even more difficult for Republicans in the future. What you'll see next is a swift re-branding of the party.

I want to return to this, but, wearing my election specialist hat - I don't think that the 2016 election was rigged or manipulated, - not in the sense of casting or counting or certifying votes - other than by what we already know re Russia, James Comey's unfortunate - re timing - intervention, the BernieBros (just as many left wingers are privately anti-Semitic, though they attempt to disguise this by claiming to be anti-Zionist, many on the left are also deeply misogynistic), and the usual voter suppression tactics (VR - voters' registers, few polling precincts, the fact that those who have served time in prison have been deprived of the right to exercise the franchise upon their release, gerrymandering, campaign financing etc).
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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To answer the question asked in the thread title, no, they don't, not at the moment.



Re the election of 2024:

Firstly, Mr Trump may face charges, and - I cannot see him not being found guilty in at least some of these - and this may affect his reputation, such as it is.

Secondly, there is the fact that Mr Trump is neither especially young nor especially healthy; he has already had Covid, and one cannot say with any authority what his state of health - both physically and mentally (not to mention, psychologically) will be in 2024.
There’s also the belief that even if Trump doesn’t run whoever does will need to have Trump’s blessing in order to get Trump’s voters. Even Trump’s niece who wrote the family tell all book fears this scenario as the next candidate with Trumps blessings would have Trump’s leanings but be a lot more skilled and mature about getting their way than Trump’s rule by tantrum.
 

Edd

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To answer the question asked in the thread title, no, they don't, not at the moment.



Re the election of 2024:

Firstly, Mr Trump may face charges, and - I cannot see him not being found guilty in at least some of these - and this may affect his reputation, such as it is.

Secondly, there is the fact that Mr Trump is neither especially young nor especially healthy; he has already had Covid, and one cannot say with any authority what his state of health - both physically and mentally (not to mention, psychologically) will be in 2024.
I do wonder if he’ll feel a sense of relief in February, free of occupational expectations.
 

Huntn

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To answer the question asked in the thread title, no, they don't, not at the moment.



Re the election of 2024:

Firstly, Mr Trump may face charges, and - I cannot see him not being found guilty in at least some of these - and this may affect his reputation, such as it is.

Secondly, there is the fact that Mr Trump is neither especially young nor especially healthy; he has already had Covid, and one cannot say with any authority what his state of health - both physically and mentally (not to mention, psychologically) will be in 2024.
I hope for 2 things, he and family members (if they commited crimes) are convicted at the State level. This will tarnish him greatly, yet in the back of my mind with him continuing to insist he is innocent, they're just out to get me!, I wonder how many of the 70m will continue support him? 😬

I’m afraid by virtue of being POTUS even formerly, he has a Teflon coating at the Federal level, which is tragic, a code that says Presidents are above the law and immune from responsibility for their lawlessness and willful destruction of the system they were sworn to uphold. I admit this is really a dicey subject, and a chink in our Democracy. The balance between Presidential responsibility and being subjected to politically motivated prosecution, especially when all of the powers handed to a President are based on this person being a responsible individual.

All bets are off when we elect a corrupt, nincompoop. I don’t see a good solution for this other than we reap what we sew. For a corrupt President, do we really want them able to pardon all of their henchmen in crime and walk away unscathed? This appears not to be an easy question to answer. Now that Trump is trying to turn it into a get out of jail free card, I can see the President’s pardoning ability,, as being curbed, regulated, or eliminated. Or how about a caveat that it can’t be for henchmen (associates) doing your illegal bidding, or being in league with you nefarious plans??

Back to the second thing I hope for, that although it might rob me of the pleasure of seeing him convicted, answering for his bankrupt life on the Earthly plain, the sooner he croaks the better preferably by way of a diet of saturated fat. Donald Trump, only by the virtue corruption and STUPID has a chance of further harming the US. You’ve got to ask, just how much stupid is out there in America? God, it’s a question, I might not want answered... 70m? 👀
 

Huntn

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I do wonder if he’ll feel a sense of relief in February, free of occupational expectations.
I believe some relief, if he can sense it, while living in a boiling cauldron of mental affliction, insecurity, his next scam, and I project and am hoping for an unsuccessful fight to stay out of jail.
 

Scepticalscribe

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I do wonder if he’ll feel a sense of relief in February, free of occupational expectations.

No.

Firstly, I imagine that he may feel some degree of trepidation as presidential immunity will no longer apply, and secondly, his ability to warp reality will be considerably reduced, while, thirdly, the pressing reality that he has actually lost the electoral contest will be brought home to him, in the most obvious, open and irrevocably final way possible, by the fact that he will be obliged to exit the White House.
 
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Scepticalscribe

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There’s also the belief that even if Trump doesn’t run whoever does will need to have Trump’s blessing in order to get Trump’s voters. Even Trump’s niece who wrote the family tell all book fears this scenario as the next candidate with Trumps blessings would have Trump’s leanings but be a lot more skilled and mature about getting their way than Trump’s rule by tantrum.

Four years is a long time; I am not so sure that Mr Trump's own malignant charisma will have quite the same appeal by then.

I think it a certainty that he will face charges, and may well be convicted; while that may not bother many of the passionate believers who comprise his most fervent base, I do think that it may serve to taint his appeal to a more standard conservative base.

As to who may be anointed as his successor, well, the family is poisonous, and I think we can expect to see an outbreak of vicious in-fighting among them before they settle on an agreed candidate to carry the torch.
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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I do wonder if he’ll feel a sense of relief in February, free of occupational expectations.
I’ve wondered recently why anybody would want an elected government job at this point in history. It seems like your days are just filled with pissing off at least half your constituency while receiving death threats.

Make that 40% of your day. AFAIK 60% of an elected officials job is still begging for money.
 
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I suspect he'll flee the country. Seriously. If so, he'll become the biggest intelligence leak and therefore a national security risk.

There is another thing no one seems to be talking about. Every state in the union used paper ballots this year and signature checks. I have a feeling that the 2016 election was indeed rigged and manipulated. It would be obviously problematic for the government to acknowledge it, so they quietly fixed the problem to counter what happened. I am not the type to spread unfounded conspiracies, so this is just a hunch. Something just isn't right.

Either way... Trump lost and he'd lose again. In this cycle, both sides were equally energized. Just look at the record turnout. Plus, we're talking another four years. That's another four generations of young high school seniors who will become voters. Add to it the changing demographics in Georgia, Nevada and Texas and you'll see that reaching 270 will be even more difficult for Republicans in the future. What you'll see next is a swift re-branding of the party.
I want to return to this, but, wearing my election specialist hat - I don't think that the 2016 election was rigged or manipulated, - not in the sense of casting or counting or certifying votes - other than by what we already know re Russia, James Comey's unfortunate - re timing - intervention, the BernieBros (just as many left wingers are privately anti-Semitic, though they attempt to disguise this by claiming to be anti-Zionist, many on the left are also deeply misogynistic), and the usual voter suppression tactics (VR - voters' registers, few rolling precincts, the prison population, gerrymandering, campaign financing etc).
I'd say 2016 was socially engineered, which is proven numerous times. The effect size is unclear so one can only speculate whether this was the decisive factor or not. So I think this is not a conspiracy theory unless you take it further than this.

I think keeping a paper trail of this election made it a lot more secure.
Trump is a double edged sword and based on my experience in Eastern European politics, he'll turn into the best asset of Democrats. They can always use Trump as a boogeyman to galvanize the Democratic base, and in 2024 the people dreading communism and anarchy will learn that communism hadn't set it, and the economy will get in an upswing, like it historically did with a Democrat presidency.

But to answer @Chew Toy McCoy's original question, sure they do have a future. They will be the Senate obstructionist party and that (op)position is definitely not at stakes for them any time soon.
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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I'd say 2016 was socially engineered, which is proven numerous times. The effect size is unclear so one can only speculate whether this was the decisive factor or not. So I think this is not a conspiracy theory unless you take it further than this.

I think keeping a paper trail of this election made it a lot more secure.
Trump is a double edged sword and based on my experience in Eastern European politics, he'll turn into the best asset of Democrats. They can always use Trump as a boogeyman to galvanize the Democratic base, and in 2024 the people dreading communism and anarchy will learn that communism hadn't set it, and the economy will get in an upswing, like it historically did with a Democrat presidency.

But to answer @Chew Toy McCoy's original question, sure they do have a future. They will be the Senate obstructionist party and that (op)position is definitely not at stakes for them any time soon.
That’s true but it seems their main target seems to be economic obstruction and I don’t think continuing to do that is going to be attractive to their base, even the same ones.
 
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That’s true but it seems their main target seems to be economic obstruction and I don’t think continuing to do that is going to be attractive to their base, even the same ones.
I agree with the first part, but their base seem to have no problem with this. It's great to be about small government, low taxes, and reduced spending, when the responsibility of keeping things from falling apart is not yours.
 
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Chew Toy McCoy

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I agree with the first part, but their base seem to have no problem with this. It's great to be about small government, low taxes, and reduced spending, when the responsibility of keeping things from falling apart is not yours.
I don't know if their unemployed or business losing base is happy with their economic assistance obstruction.
 
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