Facebook Gave Cops Data To Prosecute Nebraska Teenager Who Had An Abortion

Joe

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If you needed another reason to delete facebook there it is.

Also, it's getting to the point where you wont be able to discuss it anywhere. Gonna have to use code going forward.

Welcome to the Handmaid's Tale!
 

fischersd

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All service providers have had to comply with "lawful access" ever since the Bush(W) administration. Back doors are built to facilitate any warrants that the authorities get in "secret court". They all have to do this. Governments have zero tolerance when it comes to going after the bad guys.

Unfortunately, this also leaves the door open to abuse of civil liberties. Now the US has more in common with China. :(
 

rdrr

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All service providers have had to comply with "lawful access" ever since the Bush(W) administration. Back doors are built to facilitate any warrants that the authorities get in "secret court". They all have to do this. Governments have zero tolerance when it comes to going after the bad guys.

Unfortunately, this also leaves the door open to abuse of civil liberties. Now the US has more in common with China. :(
As far as I know, all companies have to comply with lawful warrants and subpoenas. At least I have to at my job in a Higher Ed, no matter how I might detest the reason for the order. As far as this case goes, I caution us not to get caught up in the rhetoric. The sensationalist title of the article can make you just summarize that FB is in the wrong here. And no matter how much you detest "The Zuc" or Meta, they were just fulfilled their legal duty.

The two women who got charged had three outs as I see it. Besides not living in a state that wants to take away a women's right to choose.

1. They could have just not told the investigator that they used messages, or not respond to the investigators without a lawyer present. They were being question about illegally burying a body.

2. Unfortunately they used messenger to commit a crime that was already on the books in Nebraska before the Supreme Court ruling. Again don't live in a state that restricts your rights and don't talk about committing a crime on a digital platform without knowing if the company will turn over that information. Don't click "I accept" without reading the EULA or T&C, and then complain if it doesn't work in your favor.

3. Don't say anything or make any transactions of PII on the internet without E2EE. There are potentially 8 billion bad guys within a second of you hitting send, to grab that info.
 
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fooferdoggie

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facebook has been removing any posts about the legally available abortion pill too right from the beginning.
 

Clix Pix

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What I wonder is why the heck they were communicating via FB messenger in the first place about something so private and important? I am assuming that they don't live together, or if they do, they rarely saw each other in person? That would be the only logical explanation for this. Surely they would have had common sense and kept all discussions and conversations about the situation as between the two of them only in person, not online anywhere.
 

fooferdoggie

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What I wonder is why the heck they were communicating via FB messenger in the first place about something so private and important? I am assuming that they don't live together, or if they do, they rarely saw each other in person? That would be the only logical explanation for this. Surely they would have had common sense and kept all discussions and conversations about the situation as between the two of them only in person, not online anywhere.
no social media is so normal people just take it for granted.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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If you needed another reason to delete facebook there it is.

But then it will be near to impossible to keep up with the people you care about if you can’t passively read their carefully curated life story letting you know it’s idyllic and every meal they eat is prepared by a top trained chef. Prior to 2004 the biggest cause of suicide was the inability to let the masses know how well you are eating on the fly.
 

Runs For Fun

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What I wonder is why the heck they were communicating via FB messenger in the first place about something so private and important? I am assuming that they don't live together, or if they do, they rarely saw each other in person? That would be the only logical explanation for this. Surely they would have had common sense and kept all discussions and conversations about the situation as between the two of them only in person, not online anywhere.
This is what I was wondering. If I'm going to be discussing something sensitive and private like this I'm sure as hell not doing it over anything associated with Facebook.
 

lizkat

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This is what I was wondering. If I'm going to be discussing something sensitive and private like this I'm sure as hell not doing it over anything associated with Facebook.

So many people, maybe most people, might think that use of a messaging feature creates actually private conversations, versus material posted in news or discussion etc. parts of an app or website.

I mean the apps do obviously make the messaging feature distinct from options to read and post other content, so people may extrapolate from that a privacy that doesn't necessarily pertain when law enforcement comes knocking at the site or app owner's door.

And then there's the old saw that familiarity breeds contempt. You get used to something that includes warnings about this or that aspect for safe usage, and nothing bad happens the first time you overstep the suggested guidelines for safe use, so.... the brain sez yeah see there's nothing to see here, walk on.

TL;DR summary: cautionary labels on stuff may not mean squat after awhile. It's why every year some farm kid loses a limb to the power takeoff shaft of a tractor. And why someone goes to the slam for having talked about his real (and about to be alleged) crimes into the hot mic of the internet. Carelessness.
 

Joe

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I feel for them, but people are going to have to be extra careful with this going forward.

Don't tell anyone. Don't talk to anyone about it. No text. No paper trail. Nothing. Don't even tell friends you think you could trust.

I have a friend I have known since HS who is anti choice and I would never trust her with this information. Her and her family are anti choice Catholics and would turn people in in a heartbeat.

Trust no one if you're in this situation.
 

lizkat

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I feel for them, but people are going to have to be extra careful with this going forward.

Don't tell anyone. Don't talk to anyone about it. No text. No paper trail. Nothing. Don't even tell friends you think you could trust.

I have a friend I have known since HS who is anti choice and I would never trust her with this information. Her and her family are anti choice Catholics and would turn people in in a heartbeat.

Trust no one if you're in this situation.

It's why the USA needs federally legislated protection that the Supreme Court will let stand, probably something like the EU has. Despite what Alito put in his opinion on Roe, that court has not ruled on federal legislation regarding abortion because the USA still lacks such legislation.

Meanwhile the state laws that represent complete bans, or stuff like the fetal heartbeat laws --locking people up if they would elect an abortion but fail to seek and obtain it before they even realize they may need one-- are sheer insanity, leaving aside all the misogyny and the red state legislators' disdain for human circumstance and medical necessities as well.

But let's talk about medical necessities for a moment. The potential for brain drain of physicians from those states is a real one. The draconian new anti-abortion laws imperil their right to continue practice of medicine. ER doctors have their own specialty, but that does include knowing how to complete surgically a pregnancy termination if a woman presents with an ectopic pregancy, or comes in after or while miscarrying, for instance. Now the doctor faces criminal investigation of whether the woman self-aborted and the doctor became an instrument of collaboration?

And let's remember there has been at least one state, Ohio, whose legislature proposed a bill with provision that it be criminal for a doctor not to try to implant an ectopic pregnancy into the womb. This procedure as related to humans is still in the realm of science fiction, and the woman's life at definite risk if treatment of an ectopic pregnancy --which treatment invariably involves loss of the embryo-- is delayed, even if the fallopian tube has not yet ruptured. But there was the collective mind of the Ohio legislature on a matter of law and order in matters medical, insisting that doctors attempt "if applicable" to reimplant an ectopic pregnancy. And here (from the piece cited above) is the related opinion of a couple of doctors:

Receiving a diagnosis of ectopic pregnancy [the chance is usually about 1% but for a woman with a previous ectopic pregancy rises to about 15%] is already tumultuous for women. Ob/Gyns like Drs. Rao and Zanotti are concerned that by allowing language like this in a bill, women may second guess the advice of their physicians. “Delaying treatment of ectopic pregnancy can be catastrophic,” says Dr. Zanotti. “Furthermore, the language in the bill may compound feelings of guilt and shame in women.”

When we confirm ectopic pregnancy through ultrasound and labs, most women are devastated to learn that there is no way for the pregnancy to be viable. It’s not a casual conversation,” Dr. Rao says.

What sane physician signs up for work in a state where criminal prosecution chances are heightened for performing a medical procedure in all competence and with safe outcome for the patient? Every state in the union is short of competent physicians. Every state in the union has nice places for a physician to live and shop and raise a family.

Who imagines for a moment that prospective medical students won't take stuff like draconian anti-abortion laws into account when planning their med school applications, internships, residencies... ?
 
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