Guns are still America’s religion

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JagRunner

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She played a stupid game, she won a stupid prize. The guy on the motorcycle she tried to run over with her car defended himself.
 

Yoused

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🐂💩. Did you even read the story?
I have looked at several versions, and none of them cover the nature of the initial altercation where she tried to run him down. Motorcyclists can be assholes. On the other hand, a person in a car ("cager") is significantly less vulnerable than a person on a bike, so yeah, trying to run down a biker, no matter why, is all kinds of wrong.

Of course, one story I read said that he finished her with a shotgun. A guy on a bike who has a shotgun close at hand? That is kind of odd.

We all make mistakes. I piss people off by behaving reasonably, because reasonable is not the order of the day. I try to hope that people forgive me when I make a rude mistake, and most of the time they do. Like today, when I took the long loop home, turned onto the side road behind the guy in the Silverado, and he decided to become a squirrel, fishtailing and bootlegging all over the road for no good reason. I stopped and let him finish his road-tirade, because who wants to get hit? He was being an asshole, but I got over it, as well as, apparently, did the other three cars that avoided getting hit by him.

It is a weird balance, trying to figure out who needs their ass handed to them and who should be answered with oops, meh, but we have become way too confrontational in this country. The assholes seem to thrive on getting a reaction (proudboys v blm/antifa, for example), so feeding their need for attention seems like an ill-considered strategy.
 
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SuperMatt

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I have looked at several versions, and none of them cover the nature of the initial altercation where she tried to run him down. Motorcyclists can be assholes. On the other hand, a person in a car ("cager") is significantly less vulnerable than a person on a bike, so yeah, trying to run down a biker, no matter why, is all kinds of wrong.

Of course, one story I read said that he finished her with a shotgun. A guy on a bike who has a shotgun close at hand? That is kind of odd.

We all make mistakes. I piss people off by behaving reasonably, because reasonable is not the order of the day. I try to hope that people forgive me when I make a rude mistake, and most of the time they do. Like today, when I took the long loop home, turned onto the side road behind the guy in the Silverado, and he decided to become a squirrel, fishtailing and bootlegging all over the road for no good reason. I stopped and let him finish his road-tirade, because who wants to get hit? He was being an asshole, but I got over it, as well as, apparently, did the other three cars that avoided getting hit by him.

It is a weird balance, trying to figure out who needs their ass handed to them and who should be answered with oops, meh, but we have become way too confrontational in this country. The assholes seem to thrive on getting a reaction (proudboys v blm/antifa, for example), so feeding their need for attention seems like an ill-considered strategy.
The collision was a fender bender with no injuries. The person on the motorcycle proceeded to follow the driver to her home and killed her. That is NOT a reasonable response to a fender bender, even if the person flees the scene. If somebody follows you to your house after a minor collision, it makes sense you would call 911 right away. Unlike this woman, I would lock my door and wait for the police to arrive instead of confronting a crazy person with a gun. Maybe she thought it would scare him away.

In the end, a person is dead because both people had guns.

Side note: I find it interesting that the report said the shooter and “witnesses” followed her to her home. My guess would be that he was in a group of bikers and they all followed her home? So now you’ve got a biker gang following you home…yeah I see why she would call 911. The so-called witnesses are definitely not random bystanders, because no random bystander is going to follow a random person home after they witness a minor collision.

Police say Morales continued to her home at 1052 East Wisconsin Avenue, went inside and came out with a gun to confront Derr and the other witnesses, who had continued to follow.

“You’re three men. You followed me. Leave me alone,” Morales shouts as multiple gunshots are heard.
 
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fooferdoggie

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The collision was a fender bender with no injuries. The person on the motorcycle proceeded to follow the driver to her home and killed her. That is NOT a reasonable response to a fender bender, even if the person flees the scene. If somebody follows you to your house after a minor collision, it makes sense you would call 911 right away. Unlike this woman, I would lock my door and wait for the police to arrive instead of confronting a crazy person with a gun. Maybe she thought it would scare him away.

In the end, a person is dead because both people had guns.

Side note: I find it interesting that the report said the shooter and “witnesses” followed her to her home. My guess would be that he was in a group of bikers and they all followed her home? So now you’ve got a biker gang following you home…yeah I see why she would call 911. The so-called witnesses are definitely not random bystanders, because no random bystander is going to follow a random person home after they witness a minor collision.


thats what I got out of it. should have called the cops. but this is Florida as I posted this in the Florida man thread.
 
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SuperMatt

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If a motorcycle was involved, I would not call it a "fender bender".
The police called it a ”minor crash” and said that Derr was not injured or ejected from him motorcycle. Sorry for my colloquialism of “fender bender” which was used where I grew up to denote a minor collision where nobody got hurt. And it sounds like his motorcycle was operable since he used it to chase the woman home and kill her.
 

JagRunner

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🐂💩. Did you even read the story?

Yes, she intentionally hit him with her car while he was on a motorcycle, which was confirmed by the witnesses in the article. The guy on the motorcycle and the witnesses tried to get her to stop while they called 911. She did not stop and they followed her home and were outside on the street talking to 911 when she came out with a gun pointed at them. She came out with a gun pointed at them. Self defense at that point. If she had simply come out without a gun she would be alive.
 

JagRunner

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The collision was a fender bender with no injuries. The person on the motorcycle proceeded to follow the driver to her home and killed her. That is NOT a reasonable response to a fender bender, even if the person flees the scene. If somebody follows you to your house after a minor collision, it makes sense you would call 911 right away. Unlike this woman, I would lock my door and wait for the police to arrive instead of confronting a crazy person with a gun. Maybe she thought it would scare him away.

In the end, a person is dead because both people had guns.

Side note: I find it interesting that the report said the shooter and “witnesses” followed her to her home. My guess would be that he was in a group of bikers and they all followed her home? So now you’ve got a biker gang following you home…yeah I see why she would call 911. The so-called witnesses are definitely not random bystanders, because no random bystander is going to follow a random person home after they witness a minor collision.



You keep trying to make this lady into a victim. SHE hit the guy on the motorcycle and left the scene. SHE came out of her home with a gun pointed at them. She was the aggressor. You don't point a gun at someone unless you plan to shoot it. If she had just stayed inside her home while both people were on the phone with 911 she would be alive.
 

P_X

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Yes, she intentionally hit him with her car while he was on a motorcycle, which was confirmed by the witnesses in the article. The guy on the motorcycle and the witnesses tried to get her to stop while they called 911. She did not stop and they followed her home and were outside on the street talking to 911 when she came out with a gun pointed at them. She came out with a gun pointed at them. Self defense at that point. If she had simply come out without a gun she would be alive.
Again, survivors get to tell their stories. If neither of them were armed everybody would be alive. Again, you don't arm children, and a significant portion of the populace are fully grown children.

But seriously, explain to me what all of this has to do with a "well regulated militia." The general interpretation of 2A is really absurd. Also, let's say it's an inalienable right to bear arms. We could still penalize people whose firearms are used for crimes. It would be a decent compromise for an adult society. You can have all the guns you want, but it's also your responsibility that those aren't abused. People want all the "fun" with the gun but none of the responsibility. Again, we are full of armed children.
 

JagRunner

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Again, survivors get to tell their stories. If neither of them were armed everybody would be alive. Again, you don't arm children, and a significant portion of the populace are fully grown children.

But seriously, explain to me what all of this has to do with a "well regulated militia." The general interpretation of 2A is really absurd. Also, let's say it's an inalienable right to bear arms. We could still penalize people whose firearms are used for crimes. It would be a decent compromise for an adult society. You can have all the guns you want, but it's also your responsibility that those aren't abused. People want all the "fun" with the gun but none of the responsibility. Again, we are full of armed children.

I agree with you there. But at this point in time you are not going to get anything changed. It is American culture. Guns are American culture. The right knows how to spin everything and you'll continue to lose elections because of it. Because they know how to scare people into "they're coming for your guns!" and democrats don't have a spine to defend their stance or get anything done. I'm really tired of wimpy democrats.
 
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SuperMatt

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Yes, she intentionally hit him with her car while he was on a motorcycle, which was confirmed by the witnesses in the article. The guy on the motorcycle and the witnesses tried to get her to stop while they called 911. She did not stop and they followed her home and were outside on the street talking to 911 when she came out with a gun pointed at them. She came out with a gun pointed at them. Self defense at that point. If she had simply come out without a gun she would be alive.
Wrong. You can’t follow somebody home after a minor crash and threaten them, then when they come out with a gun to get you to leave their property, you shoot them in “self defense.” You realize the only living witnesses speaking so far are the biker buddies of the killer, right?

Read this article about the castle doctrine in Florida. The woman had a right to do what she did:


The family of the woman who died needs to press charges and this guy and his accomplices need to be held accountable. They were on her property, threatening her.

I still maintain though - if nobody had guns, nobody in this situation would be dead.
 
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SuperMatt

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You keep trying to make this lady into a victim. SHE hit the guy on the motorcycle and left the scene. SHE came out of her home with a gun pointed at them. She was the aggressor. You don't point a gun at someone unless you plan to shoot it. If she had just stayed inside her home while both people were on the phone with 911 she would be alive.
She is the victim. She is dead. Angry bikers followed her home and shot her on her own property.
 

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I agree with you there. But at this point in time you are not going to get anything changed. It is American culture. Guns are American culture. The right knows how to spin everything and you'll continue to lose elections because of it. Because they know how to scare people into "they're coming for your guns!" and democrats don't have a spine to defend their stance or get anything done. I'm really tired of wimpy democrats.
This attitude is really frustrating. Give up on all principles because of mental children. People normalizing school or hospital active shooter drills are sick. And people choosing these drills over fixing or at least mitigating the situation are true cowards. It's not only the politicians' responsibility to debunk all the fake propaganda around gun ownership. It's ours, including you.

1. Access to a firearm is associated with increased risk of becoming a homicide victim
2. Shootings are the third leading cause of death in youth younger than 19.
3. The USA has more guns than inhabitants.
4. It takes 4 years for Americans to "lose" a million guns because of the sloppy gun storing habits
5. Rural White Southerners lose the most guns.
6. Crime prevention numbers attributed to owning a gun are literally made up
7. Homicide rates in the USA are way higher than in the EU or Canada, and the difference is primarily driven the ones involving firearms.

(these are the rebuttals of the most common pro-gun arguments I've heard and none of these took me longer than a 15 min google scholar search to verify)
 
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JagRunner

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She is the victim. She is dead. Angry bikers followed her home and shot her on her own property.

Bikers followed her home after she hit them with their vehicle and failed to stop. You make it seem like they followed her for no reason. It was a hit and run. They were outside waiting for the cops to arrive when she came out with a gun pointed at them. One of the rules of gun ownership is don't point a gun at someone if you don't intend to shoot. She seems like a horrible gun owner, and it cost her her life. I'm sure someone in the neighborhood had cameras so more will come out.
 

Yoused

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I stand by my assertion: guns make people stupid. I do not need to avoid pissing people off, because, if they come after me, I can shoot them in self defense.

It upsets people when I say that, but I have seen the evidence. If you do not have that fallback, you tend to behave more circumspectly.
 
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