How can there not be a COVID-19 thread?

[Clix Pix]

I am figuring that there will be a need for "booster" vaccinations for all of us over the upcoming years once this initial dosage protocol has been completed...... At this point we still don't know for sure how long the current vaccinations will protect us, and my guess is that this isn't the end of the story when it comes to COVID-19.

 

[Alli]

YOU.
SHOULD.
BE.
ELIGIBLE.
NOW!

That's all I can say about it

Yes, I know. Although I just heard that some cancer survivors are being told they cannot take the vaccine. I wonder if it’s only for certain cancers?

 

[Alli]

I am figuring that there will be a need for "booster" vaccinations for all of us over the upcoming years once this initial dosage protocol has been completed...... At this point we still don't know for sure how long the current vaccinations will protect us, and my guess is that this isn't the end of the story when it comes to COVID-19.

Unfortunately, I’m sure you’re correct. It may wind up being like the annual flu shot.

 

[SuperMatt]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1354836669292228608/

Jail time...

 

[User.45]

I am figuring that there will be a need for "booster" vaccinations for all of us over the upcoming years once this initial dosage protocol has been completed...... At this point we still don't know for sure how long the current vaccinations will protect us, and my guess is that this isn't the end of the story when it comes to COVID-19.

Correct. We might be looking ahead of COVID-21.:/

Yes, I know. Although I just heard that some cancer survivors are being told they cannot take the vaccine. I wonder if it’s only for certain cancers?

It's only for those treated with rituximab (anti CD20 antibody targeting B-lymphocytes). They have a much lower chance to mount an immune response to the Flu shot, so that is extrapolated to COVID. Now...half life of Ritux is ~24days and you need 5 halflives to consider a drug gone. So this means we should have stopped rituximab on these patients in August... I only have one person on this drug right now but I told them to get the shot whenever they can...We can check their antibodies at day #42. I'd rather give it to them than to Marco fucking Rubio. (I also had the liberty to stop the rituximab after some discussion with our group).

 

[Alli]

I'd rather give it to them than to Marco fucking Rubio.

I'd rather give almost anyone anything before Rubio gets it. Poor Florida.

 

[lizkat]

I read that although the J&J vaccine in large trial has proven only 66% effective against moderate to severe instances of covid infection, it has been excellent in preventing levels of illness resulting in hospitalization or death. And requires only regular refrigeration, so overall sounds like a good solution for the less densely populated rural areas after it gets the emergency FDA authorization it will seek sometime next week. They expect approval by March and to be able to deliver 100 million doses in the USA by June.

J&J Vaccine Provides Strong Shield Against Severe Covid

Johnson & Johnson’s one-shot vaccine generated strong protection against Covid-19 in a large, late-stage trial, raising hopes that it can rapidly reshape a stumbling immunization campaign.

www.bloomberg.com

In a study of more than 44,000 people, the vaccine prevented 66% of moderate to severe cases of Covid-19, according to a company statement Friday. And it was particularly effective at stopping severe disease, preventing 85% of severe infections and 100% of hospitalizations and deaths.

“If you can prevent severe disease in a high percentage of individuals, that will alleviate so much of the stress and human suffering” of the pandemic, said Anthony Fauci, the top U.S. infectious-disease official, at a briefing on the results with company and government officials.

If cleared, J&J’s vaccine could go a long way toward ending the pandemic. Competing vaccines from Moderna Inc. and Pfizer Inc. have generated stronger overall efficacy rates of more than 90%, but require two shots to be given before their full benefits take hold. J&J’s shot also can be kept in a refrigerator for three months, while those from Pfizer and Moderna must be kept frozen.

“This is a single shot that can be given easily, it protects completely from that which we fear, having to go to the emergency room or a hospital,” said Mathai Mammen, head of global research and development for J&J’s pharmaceutical division, in an interview. “It’s going to change the nature of the disease.”

 

[User.45]

I read that although the J&J vaccine in large trial has proven only 66% effective against moderate to severe instances of covid infection, it has been excellent in preventing levels of illness resulting in hospitalization or death. And requires only regular refrigeration, so overall sounds like a good solution for the less densely populated rural areas after it gets the emergency FDA authorization it will seek sometime next week. They expect approval by March and to be able to deliver 100 million doses in the USA by June.

J&J Vaccine Provides Strong Shield Against Severe Covid

Johnson & Johnson’s one-shot vaccine generated strong protection against Covid-19 in a large, late-stage trial, raising hopes that it can rapidly reshape a stumbling immunization campaign.

www.bloomberg.com

I'd say this gives off a vibe of a good spin for mediocre results in way that's beneficial to company stock value. I suspect they haven't met their primary endpoint and these listed are secondary trial endpoints at best, posthoc analyses at worst. However, it'd take more effort looking into this than I'm willing to make today.

 

[lizkat]

I'd say this gives off a vibe of a good spin for mediocre results in way that's beneficial to company stock value. I suspect they haven't met their primary endpoint and these listed are secondary trial endpoints at best, posthoc analyses at worst. However, it'd take more effort looking into this than I'm willing to make today.

I'm hoping the FDA feels like making the effort it should make before it grants the authorization.

Still, zero deaths and 85% not landing in hospital sounds promising. As for the efficacy, 66% is better than flu vaccines some years, and if the J&J one is as good as its trials indicate on preventing need for hospitalization, that's a plus. Among other things it would tend to reduce exposure via hospitals to people who now put off preventive medical workups or elective surgeries out of fear they'll contact covid that way.

EDIT: J&J stock had dropped some on the news... so the markets are as skeptical as may be justified. I have no dog in that fight, only looking for the bright side for folks in rural areas less likely to encounter it to begin with but more inconvenienced by a double-dose requirement.

 

[User.45]

I'm hoping the FDA feels like making the effort it should make before it grants the authorization.

Still, zero deaths and 85% not landing in hospital sounds promising. As for the efficacy, 66% is better than flu vaccines some years, and if the J&J one is as good as its trials indicate on preventing need for hospitalization, that's a plus. Among other things it would tend to reduce exposure via hospitals to people who now put off preventive medical workups or elective surgeries out of fear they'll contact covid that way.

EDIT: J&J stock had dropped some on the news... so the markets are as skeptical as may be justified. I have no dog in that fight, only looking for the bright side for folks in rural areas less likely to encounter it to begin with but more inconvenienced by a double-dose requirement.

The issue is that the statistical (and clinical) significance really depends on the number of events, which depends on COVID incidence and time.

So if they had 100 cases of COVID, the results aren't gonna be very significant statistically.

I'm hoping the FDA feels like making the effort it should make before it grants the authorization.

Sure; they get paid the "big bucks" to do it (~165K/yr, which is like 50% of industry...). We're desperate so I suspect the thresholds are low for now as long as safety is confirmed.

 

[User.45]

Bill Maher promoting that COVID was produced in a lab?! WTF. The guy has been really underwhelming when it came to medical issues and now he's going down the deep end. He invited an evolutionary biologist couple with a podcast (Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying) who claimed that SARS-CoV-2 is 90% likely to have come from a lab?! Who are these people?! I looked them up on google scholar...Let's just say that they really lack the academic acumen for me to consider them credible. I mean looking into controversial stuff is fine, even desired, but that shit has to be backed up by data beyond "There's a coronavirus research lab in Wuhan". Argh. I think I'm done with this show.

 

[JayMysteri0]

There will be hucksters

In Philadelphia, A Scandal Erupts Over Vaccination Startup Led By 22-Year-Old

City officials gave coronavirus vaccines to Philly Fighting Covid, whose brash CEO had no health care experience. After a WHYY investigation, the city cut ties with the group over alleged misconduct.

www.npr.org

"There was literally 85-year-olds, 95-year-old people standing there, with printed appointment confirmations saying, 'I don't understand why I can't get vaccinated,' " Horn recalled.

On Jan. 23, volunteer nurse Katrina Lipinksi was helping at one of Philly Fighting Covid's vaccination events. She said that about half an hour before the event's scheduled end, staffers started telling volunteers and other workers to call anyone they knew to come in for a shot because there were going to be extras.

Then she saw Doroshin grab a handful of vaccines and stuff them in his bag, along with the corresponding CDC vaccination record cards.

"The idea of somebody who's not a licensed health care professional vaccinating their own friend, with or without observation period, that certainly was not the right thing to do," Lipinksi told WHYY.

Doroshin initially denied Lipinski's account but eventually admitted he took doses home during a Jan. 28 interview on NBC's Today show. The following day at a press conference, he said he had vaccinated his girlfriend, but no one else. He did not explain how Philly Fighting Covid ended up with extra doses after it turned away people, including seniors, who were in line waiting for the vaccine that same day.

The city cut ties with Philly Fighting Covid on Jan. 25, citing the company''s abandonment of its testing work and the company's new privacy policy, which would have allowed it to sell patient data.

 

[User.45]

There will be hucksters

It's pretty hilariously awful. There were something on the news about use the right needle type you can get an extra dose out of each vile. Too lazy to verify, but sounds legit.

 

[JayMysteri0]

It's pretty hilariously awful. There were something on the news about use the right needle type you can get an extra dose out of each vile. Too lazy to verify, but sounds legit.

Check PRSI, they covered that. I think Pshfud even weighed in with a lengthy reply. But there is some truth to it, but I think it's based on how the dosage is applied

Pfizer Will Ship Fewer Vaccine Vials to Account for ‘Extra’ Doses (Published 2021)

After the surprise discovery of an extra dose in every vial, Pfizer executives successfully lobbied the F.D.A. to change the vaccine’s formal authorization language. The company charges by the dose.

www.nytimes.com

 

[lizkat]

The issue is that the statistical (and clinical) significance really depends on the number of events, which depends on COVID incidence and time.

So if they had 100 cases of COVID, the results aren't gonna be very significant statistically.


Sure; they get paid the "big bucks" to do it (~165K/yr, which is like 50% of industry...). We're desperate so I suspect the thresholds are low for now as long as safety is confirmed.

On balance if the FDA approves the J&J covid vaccine, then living in this rural area with somewhat less chance of covid infection to begin with, I'll be happy to take that single dose variant, instead of waiting to get onto the two-appointment lists for the Moderna or Pfizer ones with higher expected general efficacy.

A vaccine that tests 85% or better against incidence of covid severe enough to land one in hospital or die from it --in a trial involving 45k individuals with essentially no hospitalizations and zero deaths-- seems "at least" as good to me as the flu shots I routinely get. And those flu vaccines are sometimes a bit off the mark anyway due to mutations, and so end up with only 40-50% efficacy against some kind of flu over winter if one is out and about in the general population.

Of course I've no clue if I have just been "lucky". And sure, if there were only 100 actual cases of covid in that entire study done by J&J then the entire selection of 45k individuals was pretty lucky too, eh? But one of the reasons they altered their original plan and reduced the trial pop to 40k from 60k was that the incidence of covid in the USA has been so high as to warrant significance of results in a smaller test group. It's not like we are anywhere near herd immunity or high levels of vaccination yet, so that was not a factor when J&J ran their test either. The 40k trial group they aimed for was the same size as the Pfizer one and larger than than run by Moderna.

 

[User.45]

On balance if the FDA approves the J&J covid vaccine, then living in this rural area with somewhat less chance of covid infection to begin with, I'll be happy to take that single dose variant, instead of waiting to get onto the two-appointment lists for the Moderna or Pfizer ones with higher expected general efficacy.

A vaccine that tests 85% or better against incidence of covid severe enough to land one in hospital or die from it --in a trial involving 45k individuals with essentially no hospitalizations and zero deaths-- seems "at least" as good to me as the flu shots I routinely get. And those flu vaccines are sometimes a bit off the mark anyway due to mutations, and so end up with only 40-50% efficacy against some kind of flu over winter if one is out and about in the general population.

Of course I've no clue if I have just been "lucky". And sure, if there were only 100 actual cases of covid in that entire study done by J&J then the entire selection of 45k individuals was pretty lucky too, eh? But one of the reasons they altered their original plan and reduced the trial pop to 40k from 60k was that the incidence of covid in the USA has been so high as to warrant significance of results in a smaller test group. It's not like we are anywhere near herd immunity or high levels of vaccination yet, so that was not a factor when J&J ran their test either. The 40k trial group they aimed for was the same size as the Pfizer one and larger than than run by Moderna.

I largely made the 100 cases up....but the order of magnitude was based on the Moderna data.... The order of magnitude wasn't off:

The interim analysis assessed 468 cases of symptomatic COVID-19 among 44,325 adult volunteers in Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, South Africa, and the United States. The investigational vaccine was reportedly 66% effective at preventing the study’s combined endpoints of moderate and severe COVID-19 at 28 days post-vaccination among all volunteers, including those infected with an emerging viral variant. Moderate COVID-19 was defined as laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 plus either one of the following: evidence of pneumonia; deep vein thrombosis; difficulty breathing; abnormal oxygen saturation or a respiratory rate equal to or greater than 20; or two or more signs or symptoms suggestive of COVID-19, such as cough, sore throat, fever or chills. Severe COVID-19 was defined as laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 plus evidence of clinical signs at rest indicative of severe systemic illness, respiratory failure, shock, significant organ dysfunction, hospital intensive care unit admission or death.

Geographically, the level of protection for the combined endpoints of moderate and severe disease varied: 72% in the United States; 66% in Latin American countries; and 57% in South Africa, 28 days post-vaccination. The investigational vaccine was reportedly 85% effective in preventing severe/critical COVID-19 across all geographical regions. No deaths related to COVID-19 were reported in the vaccine group, while 5 deaths in the placebo group were related to COVID-19. Overall, there were 16 deaths in the placebo group, and 3 deaths in the vaccine group.

So they had 0 deaths vs. the expected 3 deaths. This isn't going to reach statistical significance at all. And I didn't even consider matching the two groups' risk of death based on demographic factors. So much of my suspicions are corroborated here.

Janssen Investigational COVID-19 Vaccine: Interim Analysis of Phase 3 Clinical Data Released

Single dose vaccine appears to be safe and effective at preventing moderate and severe COVID-19 in adults.

www.nih.gov

 

[lizkat]

Leaving the death stats out of it then: it was said to be 67% effective against moderate or severe instances, so I'll certainly take it if they bring it here to the boondocks and there's still no readily available Moderna or Pfizer.

So far in this rural county of only 43k people, we have had about 1100 cases and about 30 deaths. There are hardly any retail jobs here, so most of the quarantine requests and instances of illness seem to be via folks bringing it back from more populated counties where they work or shop.

The longer the USA goes without having confidence of herd immunity, the more weary people get of wearing masks "because America" ...so for the near term I wouldn't expect the risk to decrease that someone brings covid over here from the grocery stores in the next county over. Whatever pops up here first in the way of a vaccine at my local clinic is what I'll go for.

 

[User.45]

Leaving the death stats out of it then: it was said to be 67% effective against moderate or severe instances, so I'll certainly take it if they bring it here to the boondocks and there's still no readily available Moderna or Pfizer.

So far in this rural county of only 43k people, we have had about 1100 cases and about 30 deaths. There are hardly any retail jobs here, so most of the quarantine requests and instances of illness seem to be via folks bringing it back from more populated counties where they work or shop.

The longer the USA goes without having confidence of herd immunity, the more weary people get of wearing masks "because America" ...so for the near term I wouldn't expect the risk to decrease that someone brings covid over here from the grocery stores in the next county over. Whatever pops up here first in the way of a vaccine at my local clinic is what I'll go for.

Agree, any safe vaccine is better than COVID. All of the vaccines are safe, so there's nothing to lose. We can get picky and check antibodies after 200M got vaccinated. You can always get a better one later if needed. I'm just saying that the sample sizes aren't there (yet) to draw major conclusions.

I just hate the stock fluffing announcements.

 

[Eric]

Some good news starting to appear.

Covid vaccines are slowing spread of virus already, early study shows

Vaccination is already easing Britain’s Covid epidemic with early data showing it is definitely reducing cases. Research due to be published within days will

www.thetimes.co.uk

Also, the top comment

The hospital I work for just went a full week with no new COVID cases among staff for the first time since Feb 2020. Very cool to see the vaccine in action. Edit: This is with 75% of employees having received one dose and 65% having received both doses. There are about 7k employees

 

[JayMysteri0]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1355937620077887492/