Is Democracy All It’s cracked up to be?

[NT1440]

Do yourselves a favor and search “crisis of democracy”. This isn’t a partisan problem, the elites across the board only believe in “democracy” for Capital. Both parties are funded by and answer to this class.

Humans are a cooperative species, we are weak flesh bags with no natural weapons or defense. We only survived because we cooperate. Humans become selfish when placed into an artificial system that pits us against each other that has nothing to do with the reality of nature. I’m referring to humans current artificial operating system, Capitalism, which is designed to divide us to be ruled over.

 

[exoticspice1]

Do yourselves a favor and search “crisis of democracy”. This isn’t a partisan problem, the elites across the board only believe in “democracy” for Capital. Both parties are funded by and answer to this class.

Humans are a cooperative species, we are weak flesh bags with no natural weapons or defense. We only survived because we cooperate. Humans become selfish when placed into an artificial system that pits us against each other that has nothing to do with the reality of nature. I’m referring to humans current artificial operating system, Capitalism, which is designed to divide us to be ruled over.

Ok provide a system that is better than capitalism and in practice works cause Stalin said the same thing and that worked out great for Russia.

With a functioning democracy not tainted with greed, capitalism can be controlled but America is not doing a great job at being not greedy.

 

[GermanSuplex]

When you think about democracy ending, you think of some unexpected turn of events, or some mastermind taking control of government.

But in reality, you never see it coming. Or in the case of anyone who can't stomach Trump, you see it coming a mile away, but are dumbfounded that others cannot as a fat imbecile stumbles and gaffes his way into an accidental presidency.

The people who cheerlead these authoritarian and fascist figures should realize that they may be further down the list of people who need to be "dealt with" when their chosen cultists are successfully able to subvert democracy, but they ARE on the list. It's just a matter of how far down. Maybe you attend a different denomination church. Maybe you're on social security and think poor people not being given food stamps or free healthcare is "just life", but make sure you keep that sentiment when they take away YOUR "free money".

Yeah, democracy is great, but as they say, only if you can keep it. When you let low-IQ circus freaks or people who think that by virtue of who they are it makes them incapable of breaking laws, then you should probably not expect the best for democracy.

 

[exoticspice1]

When you think about democracy ending, you think of some unexpected turn of events, or some mastermind taking control of government.

But in reality, you never see it coming. Or in the case of anyone who can't stomach Trump, you see it coming a mile away, but are dumbfounded that others cannot as a fat imbecile stumbles and gaffes his way into an accidental presidency.

The people who cheerlead these authoritarian and fascist figures should realize that they may be further down the list of people who need to be "dealt with" when their chosen cultists are successfully able to subvert democracy, but they ARE on the list. It's just a matter of how far down. Maybe you attend a different denomination church. Maybe you're on social security and think poor people not being given food stamps or free healthcare is "just life", but make sure you keep that sentiment when they take away YOUR "free money".

Yeah, democracy is great, but as they say, only if you can keep it. When you let low-IQ circus freaks or people who think that by virtue of who they are it makes them incapable of breaking laws, then you should probably not expect the best for democracy.

yeah thats the problem with democracy people can elect dumb idoits who are not qualified. In fact all politics is crap, nothing works. Every system is great in theory but sucks in practice.

 

[Huntn]

Ok provide a system that is better than capitalism and in practice works cause Stalin said the same thing and that worked out great for Russia.

With a functioning democracy not tainted with greed, capitalism can be controlled but America is not doing a great job at being not greedy.

@NT1440 post is an observation about the human species, I still believe that the best 2 choices are democracy with an abhorrence to corruption, a reasonable moral basis, a strong commitment to equal rights, a goal of equal opportunity, and communal freedoms. Option 2 is benevolent dictatorship which after human beings for 69 years, I have a hard time seeing this actually being created with the same goals of rights and freedoms in the group within the limits of the dictatorship. For that matter, the ideal Demicracy is extremely hard to create. Look at what we have to work with…

If you look at the 19th century USA, great wealth, big tycoons scooping the wealth, average people functioning as the sheep one exception is the early 20th century when populism slapped the tycoons down, then post WWII great economic opportunity, and the forces of wealth and greed have made steady advances back for 70 years putting the sheep* back in their rightful place.

*We are sheep when we as a group function like sheep, and sheep have their rightful place being sheered And kings have earned the right (for now ) of living like kings until the next adjustment which could be a collapse/reset.

 

[ArgoDuck]

An interesting paper just came out in nature (it’s open access), which looks at population size as a core driver. Specifically, as cities grow in size, resource disproportionately accrues to city elites, with most of the population (who contribute to the city’s increased wealth) little better off than had they remained in smaller cities or urban areas.

Whether such inequality is an inevitable outcome of larger cities is an open question. But what piqued my interest is that the findings directly challenge the aims of democracy as @Huntn just described them, and with which i agree. Democracy appears broken because the rewards of our socioeconomic systems aren't shared equitably.

Actually, this seems true regardless of political system. It’s just that democracy’s apparent failure to address it seems worse.

Is it, though, a failure of democracy? Or rather, that we’re not doing it right? Our democracies may be…well, ‘democratic’, but our socioeconomic systems are not. The changes need to be made there. And that’s…a whole different set of problems.

Meanwhile, demographic trends show more and more people moving to cities, making the problem illustrated in the paper effectively describe whole societies and countries, and exacerbating the very inequities democracy hopes to avoid.

Little wonder people are increasingly disappointed- and angry - and are casting about for anything that looks like a way out.

 

[Herdfan]

Whether such inequality is an inevitable outcome of larger cities is an open question. But what piqued my interest is that the findings directly challenge the aims of democracy as @Huntn just described them, and with which i agree. Democracy appears broken because the rewards of our socioeconomic systems aren't shared equitably.

So how do you quantify that? Does everyone put in the same amount of work? Did everyone prepare the same?

Should someone who blew off HS and did enough to graduate get the same equity as someone who stayed home on Saturday nights and studied so they could get a scholarship to college?

Should someone who shows up late to work regularly get the same promotion as the person who shows up early and stays late?

Sometimes inequity is based on effort, both current and previous, and no system can overcome that.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

With a functioning democracy not tainted with greed, capitalism can be controlled but America is not doing a great job at being not greedy.

FDR’s torpedoed economic bill of rights would have been a move in the right direction. Let’s take homelessness or the threat of it off the table. Everybody gets minimal housing. You want something bigger and fancier? Great, go pay for it. But capitalism won’t allow that to happen because homelessness, or what some would consider hell on earth, is a big motivator to do shit jobs for shit pay.

 

[exoticspice1]

FDR’s torpedoed economic bill of rights would have been a move in the right direction. Let’s take homelessness or the threat of it off the table. Everybody gets minimal housing. You want something bigger and fancier? Great, go pay for it. But capitalism won’t allow that to happen because homelessness, or what some would consider hell on earth, is a big motivator to do shit jobs for shit pay.

Like I said a functional democracy would reign in the capitalists who seek to maximize profit.

There is no perfect system and communism/socialism in practice proved that.

 

[exoticspice1]

@NT1440 post is an observation about the human species, I still believe that the best 2 choices are democracy with an abhorrence to corruption, a reasonable moral basis, a strong commitment to equal rights, a goal of equal opportunity, and communal freedoms. Option 2 is benevolent dictatorship which after human beings for 69 years, I have a hard time seeing this actually being created with the same goals of rights and freedoms in the group within the limits of the dictatorship. For that matter, the ideal Demicracy is extremely hard to create. Look at what we have to work with…

If you look at the 19th century USA, great wealth, big tycoons scooping the wealth, average people functioning as the sheep one exception is the early 20th century when populism slapped the tycoons down, then post WWII great economic opportunity, and the forces of wealth and greed have made steady advances back for 70 years putting the sheep* back in their rightful place.

*We are sheep when we as a group function like sheep, and sheep have their rightful place being sheered And kings have earned the right (for now ) of living like kings until the next adjustment which could be a collapse/reset.

And in the 21st century corps rule america. Bribes are donations. Corruption is everywhere.

 

[Huntn]

So how do you quantify that? Does everyone put in the same amount of work? Did everyone prepare the same?

Should someone who blew off HS and did enough to graduate get the same equity as someone who stayed home on Saturday nights and studied so they could get a scholarship to college?

Should someone who shows up late to work regularly get the same promotion as the person who shows up early and stays late?

Sometimes inequity is based on effort, both current and previous, and no system can overcome that.

The problem is us, as @NT1440 excellently described it, humans appear to be good at sharing only when our survival is at stake, beyond that, it’s all about ME. The issue we have today is those at the top feel that greed is good because it benefits themselves. Too much Me>We not enough We>Me. How much wealth do you need to live a healthy, productive, interesting life? An idea system would prevent billionaires and mostly limit millionaires.

The top performers may be bright and energetic, but living in a society, there should be strict caps on wealth, think of it as caps on gluttony. Think of the country as a team and the communal benefit to society, not how much can I grab for myself.

Medicine should be group funded, education free, anyone who puts in the work should get free or moderately priced higher education, there should be a basic subsistence level of support for everyone. If you don’t want to work, then you’ll still scrape by at the bottom of the economic spectrum, you just won’t live in the gutter until you die.

Corporations design to scoop up as much wealth as possible is both the problem and a characteristic of humans when they get the chance to be greedy. They love being wealthy and don’t like sharing with the poor, plus Corporations don’t adequately share the wealth with their employees, giving preference to shareholders which Is an issue.

What sysrem would promote this? The obvious answer is Socialsim but you need to have a populace that agrees to it, I won’t speak for other countries, but in the US since WWII there is the perfect example of a country who had it all, yet inherent human greed and corruption has just about ruined it.