On The Eve of the Next Revolution

somerandomusername

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First came the Mouse, then the Click Wheel, next was Multi Touch, and after that Digital Crown, and now, the next revolution: Gaze.

The era of spatial computing is here
 
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Cmaier

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First came the Mouse, then the Click Wheel, next was Multi Touch, and after that Digital Crown, and now, the next revolution: Gaze.

The era of spatial computing is here

I’d hardly put “Digital Crown” on the same list as mouse, click wheel or multitouch. Apple can’t even decide what the digital crown should do - it changes every few years.

I think “spatial computing” has tremendous potential, but as long as the form factor weighs the same as an iPad Pro, requires straps on your head, and has 2.5 hour battery life, it won’t have the impact on society that the mouse, iPod, or iphone did. Apple needs to race to where everyone knows this needs to go - glasses that look more or less like normal glasses, and which can be worn all day as you walk around town and live your life.

I’m still planning to buy AVP (I’ve seen enough software coming out that makes it at least plausibly worth it for my use cases), and I am very impressed with what Apple has accomplished so far. I just think it’s a little early to declare it as being as impactful as iphone, iPod, or Mac.
 
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somerandomusername

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I’d hardly put “Digital Crown” on the same list as mouse, click wheel or multitouch. Apple can’t even decide what the digital crown should do - it changes every few years.
In what sense? It allows a user to scroll through lists, apps, zoom in/out, go back/forward with time. This was an issue with the iPod nano, which wasn’t bad, but for a product that needs to display more information than occasionally looking at what song is playing, your finger obstructs the display. Pinch to zoom cant even work on a display that small. It provides a good input method for interacting with a small screen.

I think “spatial computing” has tremendous potential, but as long as the form factor ways the same as an iPad Pro,
I’m guessing you mean apps? As I said in my post in another thread, this isn’t the iPhone. It can’t be, because it is introducing an entirely new paradigm. First was Text (which was predicated by punchcards, infinitely less useful and impossible to make that a PC), then came the GUI. When the GUI came, the apps were Text based stuff in a better form factor UI wise. But were spreadsheets revolutionized when the GUI was released? No. and that’s my point.
Every app back then was built under the constraints of a terminal style interface, by people who have never experienced a GUI and what possibilities it could bring. Video calling is one killer use case of GUI, and it would be impossible on a text based interface.

Every app today was built for the GUI paradigm, and it is built by people so have no experience with this new paradigm. It is not only about enhancing what has been, but creating what will be.

requires straps on your head, and has 2.5 hour battery life, it won’t have the impact on society that the mouse, iPod, or iphone did. Apple needs to race to where everyone knows this needs to go - glasses that look more or less like normal glasses, and which can be worn all day as you walk around town and live your life.
I disagree. There are room for multiple form factors in this, as there are multiple form factors in GUI (Mac, iPod, iPhone/iPad, Apple Watch). They all bring unique features to the table but are all fundamentally the same — GUI. And there is room for form factors beyond wearables, like laser projection, sort of a la HoloDeck or Foundation’s Prime Radiant

I’m still planning to buy AVP (I’ve seen enough software coming out that makes it at least plausibly worth it for my use cases), and I am very impressed with what Apple has accomplished so far. I just think it’s a little early to declare it as being as impactful as iphone, iPod, or Mac.
Fair, although all of those devices also had the same commentary around them. It will be exciting to see not only what Apple has produced, but to see what they do in the future, and what third party devs do!
 

Cmaier

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In what sense? It allows a user to scroll through lists, apps, zoom in/out, go back/forward with time. This was an issue with the iPod nano, which wasn’t bad, but for a product that needs to display more information than occasionally looking at what song is playing, your finger obstructs the display. Pinch to zoom cant even work on a display that small. It provides a good input method for interacting with a small screen.

I am not sure what you are saying. I was talking about the Digital Crown (on the Apple Watch, primarily.). The functions assigned to it have changed substantially over the years. For example, remember when you could rotate it to advance the time, and your complications would update accordingly? Now it brings up the widget list when you rotate it. The functionality keeps changing.

Every app today was built for the GUI paradigm, and it is built by people so have no experience with this new paradigm. It is not only about enhancing what has been, but creating what will be.

Sure. But until I see some new thing that isn’t just ipad-gui sitting vertically in my field of view, then “spatial computing” hasn’t brought much to the table yet.

I disagree. There are room for multiple form factors in this, as there are multiple form factors in GUI (Mac, iPod, iPhone/iPad, Apple Watch). They all bring unique features to the table but are all fundamentally the same — GUI. And there is room for form factors beyond wearables, like laser projection, sort of a la HoloDeck or Foundation’s Prime Radiant

I disagree. There is no inherent advantage to doing this with a giant pair of ski goggles versus, say, a nice pair of shades. The reason it’s a giant pair of ski goggles right now is not because it is inherently advantageous - it’s because that’s the only way apple could get it to work.

This is very different than the form factors you mention above - Mac has inherent advantages over ipad (built in keyboard, easy to set screen angle, built-in trackpad, lots of ports, etc.). iPad has inherent advantages over Mac (touch screen works better if device is flat, lighter weight is inherently better for many uses, etc.). iPhone has advantages over mac and ipad (pocketable, light weight, etc.). Apple Watch has advantages (wearable, lightweight, etc.)

Even if an iPhone could run the full catalog of Mac software, the Mac would still have advantages over iPhone (bigger screen, full keyboard, etc.) and would have a reason to exist.

If a pair of glasses could do everything AVP did, nobody would pick AVP. If an iPhone could do everything Mac did, many people would still pick Mac.

It’s a completely different analysis.
 

somerandomusername

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Not to poo poo what apple are doing, but HoloLens has had eye tracking for several years at this point.
I’ve read it’s dogshit compared to Apple’s in the same way touchscreens were shit before iPhone, which is what I was getting at. Not saying Apple invented the concept of eye tracking, but they’re the first to do it well according to people who have used it and base an entire OS around it like iOS with multi touch. I’m not sure how to explain how good it is without writing a long ass comment like usual as I just did in response to Leman on another thread regarding this product today, but trust that’s it’s not in the same league.
 

throAU

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I’ve read it’s dogshit compared to Apple’s in the same way touchscreens were shit before iPhone, which is what I was getting at. Not saying Apple invented the concept of eye tracking, but they’re the first to do it well according to people who have used it and base an entire OS around it like iOS with multi touch. I’m not sure how to explain how good it is without writing a long ass comment like usual as I just did in response to Leman on another thread regarding this product today, but trust that’s it’s not in the same league.

Quite likely yes, but I have used it in person and it is/was usable.

All I'm saying is whether or not it is dog shit in comparison (and given I last used one like 4-5 years ago, hardware advance should ensure that unless Apple are incompetent) - it was usable enough to make the HoloLens a usable platform.

I know HoloLens has copped a heap of shit over the years and the military had issues, but as far as a proof of concept it was pretty cool what you could do with it.

And that was IIRC $5k USD and much less advanced than the AVP.

Don't misunderstand, I am hyped for the Apple headset when model 2 or 3 comes down the pipe and it is affordable. But Apple are definitely trailing Microsoft's lead here and unfortunately Microsoft have given up. Like they seem to do just before getting on the brink of something really good lately.

I just really think Microsoft deserve some credit for HoloLens, its one of the few cool pieces of actually new tech I've seen them put out in the past 20 years.
 

somerandomusername

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I am not sure what you are saying. I was talking about the Digital Crown (on the Apple Watch, primarily.). The functions assigned to it have changed substantially over the years. For example, remember when you could rotate it to advance the time, and your complications would update accordingly? Now it brings up the widget list when you rotate it. The functionality keeps changing.

The functionality of it has remained the same. In apps it’s used differently according to what app it is: Maps and Photos it zooms in and out, Messages it scrolls through a list, etc.

Again: for a product that needs to display more information than occasionally looking at what song is playing, your finger obstructs the display. Pinch to zoom cant even work on a display that small. It provides a good input method for interacting with a small screen.

which is what I’m saying with various i input methods being designed for each category.

Sure. But until I see some new thing that isn’t just ipad-gui sitting vertically in my field of view, then “spatial computing” hasn’t brought much to the table yet.

Sure, but to be fair there’s a lot that can’t be effectively shown in 2D videos. It can only be explained by using it. Spatial and Immersive Videos are two examples, with Immersive practically transporting you into a different place and it looks like you’re there because Of its tech (8K, HDR, 3D, 180 degree view, and Spatial Audio).

I disagree. There is no inherent advantage to doing this with a giant pair of ski goggles versus, say, a nice pair of shades.

The problem is technical for the moment. I started writing a very long Article (like you do with CPU stuff :D) on here talking about this very thing, but I abandoned it.

Passthrough AR tech is superior to Waveguide AR tech for a ton of reasons. But Without delving into the reasons for sake of length, the ski goggle form factor, whilst not being the most convenient (and it will come down in weight and size), blocks out light and that allows for fully immersive experiences unlikely, especially for the moment, for Waveguide AR tech to do. So there is an advantage over Waveguide AR.

The reason it’s a giant pair of ski goggles right now is not because it is inherently advantageous - it’s because that’s the only way apple could get it to work.

True and not true. They want an AR product in a dramatically smaller form factor. Apple hates non-portable portable technology.

As I stated above, blocking out light with Passthrough AR allows for experiences unlikely on Waveguide AR tech.

This is very different than the form factors you mention above - Mac has inherent advantages over ipad (built in keyboard, easy to set screen angle, built-in trackpad, lots of ports, etc.). iPad has inherent advantages over Mac (touch screen works better if device is flat, lighter weight is inherently better for many uses, etc.). iPhone has advantages over mac and ipad (pocketable, light weight, etc.). Apple Watch has advantages (wearable, lightweight, etc.)
I was saying this, and that it was different form factors do different things. Glasses might be very well suited to 80% of the tasks done on ski goggles, but ski goggles do 20% of stuff that glasses can’t.

My point is like GUI, there are room for different form factors even beyond wearable products.

If a pair of glasses could do everything AVP did, nobody would pick AVP.

Absolutely I agree. But they don’t at the moment. “Glasses” today don’t even do 10%, both in functionality and quality of images wise. And it’s not clear that they ever will. If it is possible, Apple will be the first to do it. Which brings me back to what I was saying, which different form factors allow for different experiences.

Ive also stated in my reply that it expands beyond wearables. Computing in 3 dimensions is limited today to screens recreating or putting images into your eye.
But computing in 3 dimensions as a concept is not limited to that. HoloDeck, Prime Radiant, etc. are examples of 3 dimensional computing but not done through tech today, just like GUI is not limited to a mouse.

And
You have two different products based on GUI. They’re designed to do a lot of the same, but some stuff differently. Comparing iPhone to Mac to make your point misses what I was trying to say. There’s a reason I included iPod In that list.
 

throAU

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But Apple are definitely trailing Microsoft's lead here and unfortunately Microsoft have given up. Like they seem to do just before getting on the brink of something really good lately.

I'll caveat this with the below:

Microsoft were 5 years early with hardware. Like they always do, they released something massively half-baked in order to be first and pretend they're a market leader.

Apple spent the past 5+ years working on software, so I think AVP has a much better chance of survival / flourishing. The apps might not exist yet but the frameworks have been around for ages and are well tested at this point.

ARKit has been around quite some time now, I don't even know if microsoft bothered with anything similar, never mind to the extent of real world testing ARKit has had with the iPhone and iPad augmented reality apps that have been available for years.
 

fischersd

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I've been saying for years that someone should have installed nanite sensors to decode the signalling of the optic nerve. We don't need another gadget to lug around - build an interface to the brain. (and also eventually cure blindness and deafness).

The downside of course is hackable people. We'll need better firewalls. :D

Heh "I can't come into work today boss, my Apple update bricked my vision" :D
 
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