So now we’re starving Afghans to death

[Chew Toy McCoy]

https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/140...san-Saring-a-Deah-Sarvain-Amid-Harsh-Winer-US

Good luck finding a major western news source reporting on this. There’s no military solution to this so why would they. If they want us to lift sanctions then they are going to have to pass standards that we don’t even hold our allies in the region up to. These are our real American values.

 

[SuperMatt]

https://www.farsnews.ir/en/news/140...san-Saring-a-Deah-Sarvain-Amid-Harsh-Winer-US

Good luck finding a major western news source reporting on this. There’s no military solution to this so why would they. If they want us to lift sanctions then they are going to have to pass standards that we don’t even hold our allies in the region up to. These are our real American values.

I feel like this is not the whole story. Do you think if all sanctions were dropped, that the Taliban would use their newfound resources to feed the people? Or would they pocket a large portion of it? That’s always the problem dealing with such regimes. You don’t want to starve the people, but letting resources flow in could result in a wealthy Taliban and people will still starve.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

I feel like this is not the whole story. Do you think if all sanctions were dropped, that the Taliban would use their newfound resources to feed the people? Or would they pocket a large portion of it? That’s always the problem dealing with such regimes. You don’t want to starve the people, but letting resources flow in could result in a wealthy Taliban and people will still starve.

That is a possibility, but again, we're demanding standards that we don't even hold Saudi Arabia to. These are spite sanctions that always punishes the poor, as if we didn't already do enough to them.

 

[SuperMatt]

That is a possibility, but again, we're demanding standards that we don't even hold Saudi Arabia to. These are spite sanctions that always punishes the poor, as if we didn't already do enough to them.

It is possible that releasing sanctions will improve conditions for the hungry and cold. It is possible it won’t help. But it will definitely strengthen the Taliban. I think that is the calculation being made by diplomats right now.

 

[ronntaylor]

It is possible that releasing sanctions will improve conditions for the hungry and cold. It is possible it won’t help. But it will definitely strengthen the Taliban. I think that is the calculation being made by diplomats right now.

It will prop up the Taliban and millions will still starve. The only difference is there will be less starvation as some resources trickle down to the starving where the Taliban isn't as in control. If it's between millions starving and blowback that will end your administration, starvation it will be.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

It is possible that releasing sanctions will improve conditions for the hungry and cold. It is possible it won’t help. But it will definitely strengthen the Taliban. I think that is the calculation being made by diplomats right now.

I think it's more than probable that the Taliban is putting out the word that the same people who were bombing the shit out of them are now withholding desparately needed aid.

And what exactly is our end game here? Clearly neither side gives a shit about the bulk of the people who are suffering. Actually, scratch that. I know what the end game is. Let future terrorists spawn from all this suffering so we can once again swoop in with a military and military contractor solution.

And maybe I'm missing something here, but to me the solution is actual food. If we send in food I don't see what the Taliban has to gain by just letting it rot.

 

[SuperMatt]

It will prop up the Taliban and millions will still starve. The only difference is there will be less starvation as some resources trickle down to the starving where the Taliban isn't as in control. If it's between millions starving and blowback that will end your administration, starvation it will be.

Agreed. Do these folks look like they will help out the citizens they rule over?

Taliban forces pepper-spray women’s rights protesters in Kabul

One woman reportedly taken to hospital after protest calling for right to work and education is stopped

www.theguardian.com

The Taliban authorities have blocked female public sector employees from returning to work, many secondary schools have still not reopened for girls and public universities are shut. Long-distance trips for women who are not accompanied by a close male relative have been banned.

The authorities have also issued guidelines that prevent television channels from broadcasting serials featuring female actors.

Many women are living in hiding, fearful of a regime notorious for human rights abuses during the Taliban’s first stint in power between 1996 and 2001.

As for humanitarian help, are folks tracking this story?

UN Adopts Humanitarian Aid Resolution for War-Torn Afghanistan

Security Council resolution aims to avoid humanitarian disaster in Afghanistan as economy teeters

www.voanews.com

The West has since frozen $9.5 billion in aid and assets to the aid-dependent country of more than 40 million people, who are also facing a harsh winter.

The Security Council resolution, passed unanimously Wednesday, said, “This resolution provides an exemption from the U.N. Security Council assets freeze against listed members of the Taliban and associated entities solely for the provision of humanitarian assistance and other activities that support basic human needs in Afghanistan, which the council will review in one year.”

So, money for the hungry and cold has already been released, but the Taliban seems to pressing for a general release of funds for all purposes… not just this.

 

[SuperMatt]

Also, USAID is trying to tackle the issue.

I think the Taliban asking for money in the name of humanitarian relief is not to be trusted… especially since the aid coming into the country seems like it might be in excess of the frozen funds they want back.

Afghanistan | Humanitarian Assistance | U.S. Agency for International Development

www.usaid.gov

The 2022 Afghanistan Humanitarian Response Plan requests $4.4 billion in humanitarian assistance for Afghans, representing the UN's largest ever single-country funding appeal.

I wonder if the Taliban will threaten NGOs in order to force a release on the frozen funds. They don’t want money coming in unless they get their piece of the pie.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Agreed. Do these folks look like they will help out the citizens they rule over?

Taliban forces pepper-spray women’s rights protesters in Kabul

One woman reportedly taken to hospital after protest calling for right to work and education is stopped

www.theguardian.com

As for humanitarian help, are folks tracking this story?

UN Adopts Humanitarian Aid Resolution for War-Torn Afghanistan

Security Council resolution aims to avoid humanitarian disaster in Afghanistan as economy teeters

www.voanews.com

So, money for the hungry and cold has already been released, but the Taliban seems to pressing for a general release of funds for all purposes… not just this.

Notice how we had to both post obscure sources that report on the humanitarian crisis the sanctions are causing but there's no problem finding Taliban abuses on mainstream media. Nobody is claiming any of the sources are lying. Major left wing media won't cover it because they don't want to make Biden look bad. Major right wing media won't cover it because they don't want Biden to look like a strongman or the average Afghani to look like an actual human being. And both won't cover it because, like I said, there's no military solution so screw them.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Also, USAID is trying to tackle the issue.

I think the Taliban asking for money in the name of humanitarian relief is not to be trusted… especially since the aid coming into the country seems like it might be in excess of the frozen funds they want back.

Afghanistan | Humanitarian Assistance | U.S. Agency for International Development

www.usaid.gov

I wonder if the Taliban will threaten NGOs in order to force a release on the frozen funds. They don’t want money coming in unless they get their piece of the pie.

Like I said, send in food and medical supplies instead of money and make it quite public. I don't see how that is a losing strategy.

 

[SuperMatt]

Like I said, send in food and medical supplies instead of money and make it quite public. I don't see how that is a losing strategy.

And that is already being done. It’s a shame the Taliban has proven they cannot be trusted, or perhaps the money would be released by America. For now, relief agencies are going to have to step in.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

And that is already being done. It’s a shame the Taliban has proven they cannot be trusted, or perhaps the money would be released by America. For now, relief agencies are going to have to step in.

I don't think anybody thought the Taliban could be trusted but I'm upset we are behind another wave of suffering. The the people have been through enough. As horrific as the Taliban may be, some Afghani people have said they'd prefer that over getting killed by a US drone strike while crossing the street and thinking about your daughter's education is kind of a moot point when they are more likely to die of starvation.

 

[SuperMatt]

I don't think anybody thought the Taliban could be trusted but I'm upset we are behind another wave of suffering. The the people have been through enough. As horrific as the Taliban may be, some Afghani people have said they'd prefer that over getting killed by a US drone strike while crossing the street and thinking about your daughter's education is kind of a moot point when they are more likely to die of starvation.

If the Taliban hadn’t taken over, the Afghan people wouldn’t be in this situation most likely.

That being said, we never should have gone to war there for 20 years. The current situation is rightfully blamed on America, but the Taliban deserves some blame too.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Are there any regimes we've ever toppled through sanctions?

 

[SuperMatt]

Are there any regimes we've ever toppled through sanctions?

Does the Cold War count as “sanctions”? I‘m not sure, but I think it played a part in the collapse of The Soviet Union.

 

[NT1440]

I think it’s important to point out that the US had frozen Afghan’s CITIZENS from being able to access their own bank accounts.

This isn’t some bullshit about keeping money out of Taliban hands (which is a knee jerk reply devoid of any actual applicability to the topic at hand). We’ve literally frozen the country’s banking system.

All of the impending deaths are on America’s hands.

 

[lizkat]

Are there any regimes we've ever toppled through sanctions?

Does the Cold War count as “sanctions”? I‘m not sure, but I think it played a part in the collapse of The Soviet Union.

Sanctions are thought to have had a large part (but not a decisive one) in ending the regime of official apartheid in South Africa, and the collapse of the Soviet Union actually also played a part. Other factors from within the country were probably decisive in the end, but the global reaction and in particular the calling in of loans from other governments were making it clear to the ruling class along with ever-increasing social protests -- kids! in playgrounds! had started it years beforehand-- that the inconveniences and impossible situations were piling up. Nelson Mandela said after his release from prison that he believed the sanctions were a crucial part of the pressures brought to bear when F W de Klerk finally agreed to negotiate with him.

What is so hard to manage during a period of international sanctions is effective provision of humanitarian aid, e.g., food and medicines, shelter materials etc., that will actually get to those needing it, instead of having it pilfered and redirected to the end of just propping up an oppressive regime.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Does the Cold War count as “sanctions”? I‘m not sure, but I think it played a part in the collapse of The Soviet Union.

I’m not sure if that counts either. It seems to me sanctions more times than not just have the end result of killing the poor due to lack of food or medical aid. The ruling class doesn’t suffer a bit.

We had 20 years to crush the Taliban and the regime we installed collapsed in about 5 minutes and took millions (billions?) of our tax dollars with them. How about we take a good long look at that before instantly pivoting to decimating the population again through something other than bombs.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Sanctions are thought to have had a large part (but not a decisive one) in ending the regime of official apartheid in South Africa, and the collapse of the Soviet Union actually also played a part. Other factors from within the country were probably decisive in the end, but the global reaction and in particular the calling in of loans from other governments were making it clear to the ruling class along with ever-increasing social protests -- kids! in playgrounds! had started it years beforehand-- that the inconveniences and impossible situations were piling up. Nelson Mandela said after his release from prison that he believed the sanctions were a crucial part of the pressures brought to bear when F W de Klerk finally agreed to negotiate with him.

But in both those examples sanctions weren't instantly applied after 20 years of continuous war and suffering with an invading foreign power. You really think the people have the strength and interest to rise up after that? Do you think a starving population does?

I'm sorry, but I don't see this as anything other than disgraceful.

 

[Herdfan]

I’m not sure if that counts either. It seems to me sanctions more times than not just have the end result of killing the poor due to lack of food or medical aid. The ruling class doesn’t suffer a bit.

We had 20 years to crush the Taliban and the regime we installed collapsed in about 5 minutes and took millions (billions?) of our tax dollars with them. How about we take a good long look at that before instantly pivoting to decimating the population again through something other than bombs.

Try Trillions. As in 5.8.