Whoopi Goldberg's comments on the Holocaust

[Deleted member 215]

ABC has suspended Whoopi Goldberg from The View after her controversial comments on the Holocaust, in which she suggested the Holocaust was "not about race".

From the CNN article I've linked below: "Goldberg first drew backlash on Monday morning when she insisted that the Holocaust was 'not about race,' but rather 'man's inhumanity to man.'"

ABC News suspends 'The View' host Whoopi Goldberg | CNN Business

ABC News suspended "The View" host Whoopi Goldberg for two weeks on Tuesday night, hours after she apologized for having falsely declared on the daytime program that the Holocaust was "not about race."

www.cnn.com

Was the Holocaust "about race"? Is this really just a controversy over whether Jews are considered a race or not? Anyone else want to weigh in on this?

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Oh boy. I'm having a special shovel made for this one. I'll be back as soon as it's finished.

 

[ronntaylor]

Self-inflicted wound on her part. She's courted controversy in the past with her comments about Jews (claiming to be part Jewish after being called out for her "Jewish American Princess" recipe in a celebrity cookbook). The reality is that Europeans and specifically the Nazis considered Jews an inferior race and that's why that holocaust happened. She's been dummy around race issues for decades. Recall the Blackface incident with her then BF Ted Danson. Her constant whining that there's no bias against Black/women actors because she's working.

Wouldn't surprise me if she leaves as a result of this suspension. Probably should have been replaced/left a while ago (along with Joy Behar).

 

[Eric]

It was an incredibly stupid thing to say and it obviously was not a mistake, she went in depth on it. She deserved what she got IMO.

 

[Alli]

On the other hand, she has apologized and says she has learned.

 

[Joe]

 

[Cmaier]

As a jew i feel like this is overblown. Being uneducated isn’t the same thing as being anti-Semitic.

 

[ronntaylor]

As a jew i feel like this is overblown. Being uneducated isn’t the same thing as being anti-Semitic.

While I think her comments were massively stupid, it boggles my mind that some say she's anti-semitic.

 

[Eric]

As a jew i feel like this is overblown. Being uneducated isn’t the same thing as being anti-Semitic.

I don't think this gives her enough credit, one doesn't need to be educated to understand that Hitler looked at their brown eyes and physical features as less than equal/pure. IMO one would have to be pretty stupid not to see it, educated or not. Whoopi clearly understood this when she was making her comments but wanted to frame it as something else.

 

[Cmaier]

I don't think this gives her enough credit, one doesn't need to be educated to understand that Hitler looked at their brown eyes and physical features as less than equal/pure. IMO one would have to be pretty stupid not to see it, educated or not. Whoopi clearly understood this when she was making her comments but wanted to frame it as something else.

Still doesn’t bother me. I’ll save my outrage for the “jews will not replace us” crowd.

 

[User.45]

I don't think this gives her enough credit, one doesn't need to be educated to understand that Hitler looked at their brown eyes and physical features as less than equal/pure. IMO one would have to be pretty stupid not to see it, educated or not. Whoopi clearly understood this when she was making her comments but wanted to frame it as something else.

I personally am extremely irritated by the compounded ignorance of her statement. The Holocaust was so much about race that the nazis actually used American anti-miscegenation laws as the blue print for theirs:

The meeting was an important one, and a stenographer was present to record a verbatim transcript, to be preserved by the ever-diligent Nazi bureaucracy as a record of a crucial moment in the creation of the new race regime. That transcript reveals the startling fact that is my point of departure in this study: the meeting involved detailed and lengthy discussions of the law of the United States. In the opening minutes, Justice Minister Gürtner presented a memo on American race law, which had been carefully prepared by the officials of the ministry for purposes of the gathering; and the participants returned repeatedly to the American models of racist legislation in the course of their discussions. It is particularly startling to discover that the most radical Nazis present were the most ardent champions of the lessons that American approaches held for Germany. Nor, as we shall see, is this transcript the only record of Nazi engagement with
American race law. In the late 1920s and early 1930s many Nazis, including not least Hitler himself, took a serious interest in the racist legislation of the United States. Indeed in Mein Kampf Hitler praised America as nothing less than “the one state” that had made progress toward the creation of a healthy racist order of the kind the Nuremberg Laws were intended to establish.

https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/upload_documents/Hitler%27s%20American%20Model%20for%20NYU.pdf

So someone saying the Holocaust wasn't about race is a mind bogglingly stupid attempt to monopolize misery. Like we don't have enough ot it in the world to share.

 

[Cmaier]

I personally am extremely irritated by the compounded ignorance of her statement. The Holocaust was so much about race that the nazis actually used American anti-miscegenation laws as the blue print for theirs:

https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/upload_documents/Hitler%27s%20American%20Model%20for%20NYU.pdf

So someone saying the Holocaust wasn't about race is a mind bogglingly stupid attempt to monopolize misery. Like we don't have enough ot it in the world to share.

I guess where I‘m coming from is - why does the distinction matter? Most of my family was wiped out, and my grandparents had to flee to America via Cuba and England. I don’t think they cared whether their parents and siblings were killed because of their ”race“ vs. their religion. And when the rednecks and trump supporters are chanting about Jews and spouting off about jewish conspiracies, I don’t care whether the reason they hate me is because of my race or my religion. As long as she agrees that 6 million Jews were killed (plus lots of other folks - Roma, homesexuals, etc.) and she agrees that this was a bad thing, I just don’t have any energy to care about it.

 

[User.45]

I guess where I‘m coming from is - why does the distinction matter? Most of my family was wiped out, and my grandparents had to flee to America via Cuba and England. I don’t think they cared whether their parents and siblings were killed because of their ”race“ vs. their religion. And when the rednecks and trump supporters are chanting about Jews and spouting off about jewish conspiracies, I don’t care whether the reason they hate me is because of my race or my religion. As long as she agrees that 6 million Jews were killed (plus lots of other folks - Roma, homesexuals, etc.) and she agrees that this was a bad thing, I just don’t have any energy to care about it.

I sympathize with your view and appreciate the mention of non-Jewish casualties of the Holocaust.

My annoyance with Whoopi is that she projects her present reality to a past era that shared a lot of ideology with what still poses an existential threat for African Americans. As a Black woman, I'd expected her to be way more informed about this topic as it circles back to Black History. And she managed to do this on the first day of the very month of it...

 

[Yoused]

The worst error in the history of science was undoubtedly classifying humans into the different races. Now, there are some big contenders for this dubious honour. Massive blunders like the invention of nuclear weapons, fossil fuels, CFCs … But race theory stands out among all of them because it has wreaked untold misery and been used to justify barbaric acts of colonialism, slavery and even genocide. Even today it’s still used to explain social inequality, and continues to inspire the rise of the far right across the globe.​

It is all about othering. We need to focus on othering – deprecating those people who are not like us – of which racism is but one component.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

When she said it was white on white so couldn’t be about race, I’m shocked she doesn’t know the definition of race. Glad she retracted her comments and hopefully now feels embarrassed.

 

[Alli]

As a jew i feel like this is overblown. Being uneducated isn’t the same thing as being anti-Semitic.

Precisely why I’m good with her apology. The only racism I’ve ever experienced was after someone found out I‘m Jewish.

When she said it was white on white so couldn’t be about race, I’m shocked she doesn’t know the definition of race. Glad she retracted her comments and hopefully now feels embarrassed.

What is the definition of race? Does it not have to do with physical characteristics?

 

[Yoused]

What is the definition of race? Does it not have to do with physical characteristics?

Consider brassica oleracea, which is called "cabbage". The species is also called "broccoli", "kale", "kohlrabi", "cauliflower" and a few other things. That is quite a lot of diversity in one species.

Or we could look at canis familiaris, which is a ridiculously diverse species, selectively bred for specific behavioral characteristics.

But the central feature of homo sapiens sapiens is our word noises, which have allowed us to expand basic animal intelligence well beyond the bounds of the individual. Different human groups have various languages, each having its own complex structure and vocabulary. Foreign languages are pretty difficult to learn, but the evidence suggests that there is no genetic component to them: an infant transported across the world and raised far from their birthplace will acquire the local language as a native speaker.

We may have different physical characteristics, but beneath it all, where it counts, we are all the same. The physical differences are nowhere near the difference between Russian Wolfhounds, border collies, samoyeds, chows, etc. Our defining characteristic is the mental part, which is consistently diverse across the species. We have some highly intelligent people and some deeply stupid ones, but the distribution of this range cannot conclusively be shown to be measurably different in the bounds of one particular "race" than it is in another.

Hence, the function of human "races" should solely be to encourage us toward genetic diversity, to breed in significant part with those there exotic types so that we keep our species robust. So that the weaknesses of one group get blunted by the strengths of another. Selective breeding is really not a good idea for us.

 

[Cmaier]

Precisely why I’m good with her apology. The only racism I’ve ever experienced was after someone found out I‘m Jewish.

What is the definition of race? Does it not have to do with physical characteristics?

Well, we do have a higher propensity for Tay-Sachs (ashkenazis at least). And I do have a big nose. Can’t explain my blue eyes, though.

 

[AG_PhamD]

I argument is misinformed and based on an misinterpretation of what race is. Race is ultimately social construction and what it has meant to be “white” has changed many times throughout history. It wasn’t long ago when Italians and Irish weren’t considered white. For some people, the deeply radical white supremacists, Jews (and probably other people considered white by society) are still not white.

The Jews get 99% of attention when it comes to the holocaust, but let’s not forget that other races of people were rounded up and enslaved and/or killed too.

This is the problem with interpreting history through the lens of modern social theory and other biases. While doing so can have value in understanding similar situations in the modern day, it doesn’t explain history. The Nazis very much considered Jews a separate race and an inferior one at that.

What I don’t understand why sharing her misinformed ideas warrants a suspension… and I say this as a Jewish person. Did she hurt my feelings by saying this? No, it made me feel like she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. And this is the perfect opportunity for others to state where her beliefs don’t match history and educate her (and the public) on what the actual history was.

Honestly I find it far more offensive she changed her surname to Goldberg (allegedly) because she thought it would make her more successful in Hollywood- she’s told many contradictory stories explaining her last name though. I think it’s the most likely explanation since she also self identifies as Jewish, or Catholic-Jewish (you cant believe in Jesus and be adherent to Judaism or visa versa). Believe it or not you can be Jewish and have any last name you want. It’s actually more common for Ashkenazi (European) Jews to change their there names to the Hebrew translations. Last names like Goldberg and Silverstein are German diaspora names created for the purposes of assimilation. She does have any familial relationship to Judaism, AFIAK has not converted (a lengthy and difficult process, unlike most religions), and admits she does even not practice Judaism or celebrate Jewish holidays.

All that said, I don’t think her comments were antisemetic nor do I think she is an antisemitic person. But it seems to be an application of the idea that the racism can only be practiced by white people, which is ridiculous.

 

[Yoused]

And I do have a big nose.

That is a big nose? You are no Cyrano de Bergerac. Not even close to a Jimmy Durante. On the scale of goofy-looking-ness, you are barely in the upper half of the first tenth-percentile.