Apple Vision Pro…. Anybody buying?

Citysnaps

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I hope you told some of the actually decent people on those posts about this forum! Anyways thanks for defeating the constant trolling those few seem to do.

I've hinted there are better forums out there for those who want to go deeper regarding Macs and tech in general, without having to endure the everyday juvenile burns at the other place. But... don't want to give the impression I'm actively recruiting (aka poaching :) ).

OTOH... if someone were to message me and ask about those other forums, I'd gladly weigh in with an opinion. :)

The nice thing about this place is I've yet to run across anyone here I don't respect - which is the polar opposite at the other place.
 

somerandomusername

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OTOH... if someone were to message me and ask about those other forums, I'd gladly weigh in with an opinion. :)

The nice thing about this place is I've yet to run across anyone here I don't respect.
Well are you allowed to personal message those people on Macrumors? I was gonna ask you if you could do that!
 

Citysnaps

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Well are you allowed to personal message those people on Macrumors? I was gonna ask you if you could do that!

Yeah I could, but I'm not sure how private those messages are. And don't want to cross a line their management might have.

I've lost count of the times I've been temporarily banned there. Just don't want to have that turn into a permanent ban - I really like their Apple/tech news coverage, and the Dan and Hartley video reviews.
 

Cmaier

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Yeah I could, but I'm not sure how private those messages are. And don't want to cross a line their management might have.

I've lost count of the times I've been temporarily banned there. Just don't want to have that turn into a permanent ban - I really like their Apple/tech news coverage, and the Dan and Hartley video reviews.
As someone who has been permanently banned, I don’t feel like I’m missing much. I can still read the news and the forums - I just can’t post. And any time I posted over there I’d just get trolled by people who wanted to mansplain CPU design to me, anyway.
 

rdrr

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Correct, and I believe that’s what Joz was saying in his personal experience. I’m presuming no one here likes me, but I hope I helped a bit in giving you some information.
Also some headsets do offer something like that, but they are severely limited and I’ve heard just plain bad. But Apple does have patents on stuff that is exactly what you’re talking about. So hopefully in a future generation!
Hopefully I didn't give you the indication of not liking you. I was just responding to the the inline thought about prescription lenses. Any reaction you may have read between the lines, is based on the prescription glasses industry where they essentially discount the frames (nearly give them away) and hammer you on the lenses.

Recently I was shopping for prescription sunglasses and the frames were $150 with I had a $50 coupon for my total purchase, I thought the total would come somewhere around $350. The total with the lenses was $1200 - $50 = $1150! I laughed and walked right out that store. So yes, I am a little bit skeptical on the cost of prescription lenses for the Apple Vision Pro.
 

Citysnaps

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As someone who has been permanently banned, I don’t feel like I’m missing much. I can still read the news and the forums - I just can’t post. And any time I posted over there I’d just get trolled by people who wanted to mansplain CPU design to me, anyway.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong...

The times I've been banned, clicking the Show Full Article button (to read beyond the first paragraph or two on the main page) and read the rest of the story, I'd get the banned message and not able to go beyond the main page paragraph or two. You didn't run into that? Is there another way to get in to read the rest of the story?

Curious... what triggered the permanent ban? Too many arguments from the experts taking issue with that I= C dV/dt pish-posh? :)
 

Cmaier

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Maybe I'm doing something wrong...

The times I've been banned, clicking the Show Full Article button (to read beyond the first paragraph or two on the main page) and read the rest of the story, I'd get the banned message and not able to go beyond the main page paragraph or two. You didn't run into that? Is there another way to get in to read the rest of the story?

Curious... what triggered the permanent ban? Too many arguments from the experts taking issue with that I= C dV/dt pish-posh? :)

You have to clear your cookies, wait to be automatically logged out, or use a different browser or a private window/tab. As long as you aren’t logged in, you can read whatever you want.

As for the ban, I posted something along the lines of “I don’t understand why all you people who hate Apple even come here, to an Apple-related site.” Wasn’t replying to anyone in particular, but commenting on a thread full of nonsensical anti-Apple rhetoric. Was banned for trolling. Somewhere I have the exact post, and I’ve shared it around here somewhere in the past, though maybe in a restricted thread.

I had joined here about a month earlier, and Arn sent me some nice DMs just prior to it, so I dunno what really went on.
 

Citysnaps

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You have to clear your cookies, wait to be automatically logged out,

Thanks.

As for the ban, I posted something along the lines of “I don’t understand why all you people who hate Apple even come here, to an Apple-related site.” Wasn’t replying to anyone in particular, but commenting on a thread full of nonsensical anti-Apple rhetoric. Was banned for trolling. Somewhere I have the exact post, and I’ve shared it around here somewhere in the past, though maybe in a restricted thread.

Since you weren't targeting a specific person, that seems pretty broad/innocuous. And more rhetorical. Permabanning as a result kinda smells like retribution. Perhaps it was because after coming here, even more people followed and came along?
 

Clix Pix

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I’m not singling you out personally. I just want to address this alongside some other comments that are similar on here to this.



This is not a gaming device. I understand because of its physical nature, that it’s often compared to what’s been on the market, which are VR headsets in the form of a game console, but this is not that.

The best way to really explain it is to use the terminology, which is blending digital content into your physical space, or spatial computing. It supports immersive experiences (most akin to VR, but nothing like what VR has traditionally offered), but that is optional. This is a product built to be in your world, and keep you in your world (augmented reality or AR). This is not something that you go into to escape life; on the contrary, it is designed to enhance it.

Facebook’s Oculus Quest is most often compared to this, again, for the reason I stated at the beginning. But these two products could not be more different. It’s like comparing an Xbox to a PC desktop — they’re used for different purposes. Just because Facebook is trying to brand itself as visionary by bolting on a feature or two from Apple’s product doesn’t make their product a spatial computer.

There have been two major interfaces in the market, the text-driven UI and the graphics UI. The text-driven UI is what started the entire personal computing revolution, with the Apple 2, with a personal computer on the desk of many who had not even heard of a computer. Then came the GUI to mass market in 1984 with Mac, but since then all existing products have been various forms of a GUI, all different but fundamentally the same. The question has arisen, what will come next after the GUI? After all, whether mouse, click wheel, or multi touch, they are all fundamentally GUI driven. This is where that product comes into play. It is the Mac of the GUI driven era. This is not the iPhone, which can be considered an extreme and advanced forward-thinking refinement of the GUI. This is the beginning of a new UI paradigm.


When the Mac came out, as ridiculous as it sounds to me, I’m sure there were naysayers about GUI: this is a toy, you can’t do stuff as fast as command line commands, it’s not as advanced, etc. But what the GUI did bring was an entirely new way to do computing, something that has revolutionized and created entire industries. Think about everything around you, everything is driven by a GUI now. There is very little that is not touched by this concept. And entire industries, like on demand accommodation or travel in an instant, where you can schedule a taxi, plane, and hotel room from YOUR room with all the pictures and videos of where you wish to go, in an instant. These sort of experiences would never be possible on a text-driven UI, like the Apple 2. You could never see, hear, or touch (with Multi touch) your photos and videos and bring them anywhere with you. You couldn’t video call your family, friends, and anyone. Obviously only a few examples, but nonetheless you get the point: GUI has revolutionized the entire world.

But at the beginning it wasn’t really that way (not that I was alive, but that’s the great thing about Internet: you get to become knowledgeable on things you weren’t alive for). The Mac launched not with millions of apps that knew what a GUI was truly for, but a pallet of apps designed by Apple that gave functionality, but also demonstrated what you can do with GUI. For the first time you could draw or see beautiful fonts like in a book.

But the thing is, much like certain critiques today, the app landscape was built for Text UI, where all that was dreamed possible and became useful on a PC was defined by what you could do with command line prompts and a text box, with lines, letters, and numbers. Technically speaking, the Mac was a new thing that really speaking, all the apps on an Apple 2 could do better there than on a Mac. If your app is a spreadsheet, you’re not going to think much of the potential of a GUI, right? The GUI at the time, at best which just recreate it and maybe it looks a little cooler but is fundamentally the same.

That’s the thing. All apps today are designed for GUI, which are limited by the boundaries of a screen, mouse or touch screen, be it one piece of glass or a foldable, rollable device. They are all fundamentally built for GUI. Which means GUI apps, of course, are going to be supported here just like Text UI apps like a spreadsheet was supported on Mac, but none of them are (yet) taking advantage of the new UI paradigm. That’s why a lot of apps, like Messages or Safari, look like a “2D window in 3D space,” albeit not exactly because they take advantage of the new paradigm more than that.
So when you ask, “what’s the point?” I tell you to look at this:

Reliving your memories of those you care about; the ability to see 3 dimensionally, so much more than a traditional picture that it’s been described as peering into someone’s life.
Not getting “the best seats in the house,” but getting the ONLY seats in the house; the ability to see a play being shown elsewhere, a sporting event in another part of the country, or experiences like diving into the shallow water of a tropical island with unique animals, all from a perspective impossible for a group of people to share in real-life — all captured with 3D, 8K, HDR video that wraps around you.
Seeing and learning about things you could never normally have access to; the ability to see something you’re learning about, and be able to see inside of it and see, right in front of you, the real time interactions of subatomic molecules or what the inside of an animal is, and learn how all of these things work in ways a textbook or even an iPad can’t fully detail.

The possibilities of a fully 3 dimensional interface have barely begun, and I hope I’ve demonstrated a bit about how the possibilities are vast. This is more than playing a game on a floating screen in front of you, it is about revolutionizing how the whole world works, all over again.

The era of spatial computing is here.
I can see your enthusiasm -- it shines through! However, "the era of spatial computing [may be] here" but to be honest, it is not going to appeal to everyone. This technology is interesting but IMHO it has a long way to go before (if) it ever progresses to popular adoption by the everyday population. Some people will embrace it with enthusiasm and others won't be able to or want to use it for various reasons. There are perceived and real barriers to this that there aren't in other devices.

This isn't the iPhone. That particular new creation, when it came along, although it took a year or two, was recognized fairly quickly by a number of people as being a tool which indeed could be very, very useful in their daily lives and thus over the next few years was adopted by those who were frustrated with their regular cell phone and annoyed with their Blackberry. The iPhone offered not just not a sleek appearance and the ability to easily slip into one's pocket or purse, it was actually a little computer that could be carried with the user everywhere and used to enjoy one's music, do a quick search on the internet for something, read end respond to one's email and texts, snap and share photos and, oh, yeah, make and receive phone calls, too! It didn't require any awkward physical accommodations, it didn't isolate users from actual reality, either, it was simply a device to be held in the hand and up to the ear, viewed with one's eyes (with or without glasses), no matter where they were and what they were doing.

It definitely is going to be interesting to see just how the Vision Pro and its future plays out.....
 

Citysnaps

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Aw, Citysnaps, I'm sorry to see that apparently from what has been mentioned here in this thread you've been suspended again at the other place....

Not currently. Just many times in the past. :)

Guess I'm sometimes viewed over there as a shit-disturber. :)
 

KingOfPain

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And any time I posted over there I’d just get trolled by people who wanted to mansplain CPU design to me, anyway.
It‘s not their fault that you don‘t know anything about CPU design! ;)

Since I‘m aware that you know some German, though, there are two saying that could apply here (and I‘d be interested if English has similar idioms):
Eulen nach Athen tragen (carry owls to Athens), which refers to something superfluous, because it is already in abundance there.
Perlen vor die Säue (pearls for the sows; I don‘t know why the alliteration pig wasn‘t used, but maybe the inventors thought that male pigs don‘t need pearls), which means: to provide something that cannot be appreciated by the receiver.
 

Cmaier

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It‘s not their fault that you don‘t know anything about CPU design! ;)

Since I‘m aware that you know some German, though, there are two saying that could apply here (and I‘d be interested if English has similar idioms):
Eulen nach Athen tragen (carry owls to Athens), which refers to something superfluous, because it is already in abundance there.
Perlen vor die Säue (pearls for the sows; I don‘t know why the alliteration pig wasn‘t used, but maybe the inventors thought that male pigs don‘t need pearls), which means: to provide something that cannot be appreciated by the receiver.
In English we have the second saying. Also “selling ice to eskimos” is popular. And many more / people like to come up with their own funny variations.
 

dada_dave

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In English we have the second saying. Also “selling ice to eskimos” is popular. And many more / people like to come up with their own funny variations.
Aye “pearls before swine”.

Interestingly the idiom “selling ice to eskimos” can be used in both a positive and negative context - eg someone silly enough to try to sell ice to eskimos vs someone so … charismatic that they can sell ice to eskimos (though even here there’s more than a hint of negativity as the implication is that they aren’t just able to do so but also willing to trick people into things).

It’d be interesting to know who borrowed the swine idiom from whom* and @KingOfPain do German’s use the “Eulen nach Athen tragen” idiom both positively and negatively or just in the negative?

*edit: ah it’s biblical, that makes sense
 
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KingOfPain

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do German’s use the “Eulen nach Athen tragen” idiom both positively and negatively or just in the negative?
From my point of view it‘s only negative, because it is something you shouldn‘t do, because it doesn‘t make any sense.

I think heard something like selling fridges to Eskimos before, and it makes sense that there is a second meaning as: they are such a good salesperson that they are able to sell stuff to people who don‘t actually need it.
Eulen nach Athen tragen doesn‘t have the monetary aspect.
 

somerandomusername

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Hopefully I didn't give you the indication of not liking you. I was just responding to the the inline thought about prescription lenses. Any reaction you may have read between the lines, is based on the prescription glasses industry where they essentially discount the frames (nearly give them away) and hammer you on the lenses.

Thank you for replying to me and clarifying to me. I appreciate that a lot. No, i wasnt referencing anyone specifically i guess just generally speaking i felt maybe people didn’t like me, because i know ive had a few heated talks and in general i just felt maybe people didn’t like what i say in general. but thanks to you and a few others who have specifically said thats not true. Also im not on here to reply a lot, because i dont have a lot of energy at the moment, so if i dont reply to something right away (or potentially ever) please don’t take it the wrong way. I might just “like” something or leave it even if i have something to say in response. I appreciate what you wrote
 

GermanSuplex

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Looks amazing, but I’d probably use it primarily for watching TV and movies, so I’ll have to wait for the scaled down (aka cheaper) model.
 

Citysnaps

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It certainly is tempting. I keep going back and forth, even though I don't have a strong current need.

Maybe when Apple or other companies release super realistic/compelling 3D videos touring other countries/museums/aircraft carriers/flying aicraft/Formula 1 racing/etc. Mostly for entertainment, and could drive a 2025 AVP purchase.

If there was an AR app I wanted to develop, that might be different. But right now that would be a distraction getting in the way of other stuff/projects I want to do.

It'll be interesting to see what developers come up with. .
 

somerandomusername

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Maybe when Apple or other companies release super realistic/compelling 3D videos touring other countries/museums/aircraft carriers/flying aicraft/Formula 1 racing/etc. Mostly for entertainment, and could drive a 2025 AVP purchase.
I believe Apple Immersive Video (its proprietary technology that’s 180 degree video, 8K, HDR, 3D) will be what you’re talking about!
 
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