Biden administration to pay migrants separated at border millions of dollars

[lizkat]

Agree. She doesn't do well when having to answer questions she doesn't want to answer.

But will she be automatically elevated to the nomination as the sitting VP? Or maybe even sitting POTUS by the time we get there?

Harris will be challenged even if she's a sitting president, and Terry McAuliffe might do it. I believe that he wants to win the Virginia governorship tonight mainly as a steppingstone to 2024 Dem nom. He might wait if Biden turns his approval rating around, but if Biden slides more or announces he won't run again, or if Harris steps up to the Oval before 2024, McAuliffe will likely go for it.

lol because it's still Clinton's turn (McAuliffe ran Clinton's 2008 primary campaign)​

If he wins tonight: this would be McAuliffe's second, nonconsecutive term as governor of Virginia. That and his past prowess at fundraising for the Dems to the max advantage are selling points. He won't hesitate to portray himself ready for 2024 presidential primaries, as someone who has won an important southern governorship twice and can do it again at a higher level and with centrist appeal (channeling the Bill Clnton of Arkansas days).

And I'd probably vote for him, not in the primaries but in the general. Sigh. Win first, shove the party planks around later. What a trap in a country so evenly divided between two major parties, even if they're both fractured. The honchos in both parties don't want to risk enough voters finally going "third party" and so deciding to make a major party's split official... even as the same honchos also hope such a split will kill off the party of their opposition. So the parties cluster in the center right, a little further right each time because the Rs are better at saying NO and getting away with it.

How does Harris fit into this scenario? However the Rs will peg her, since the Dems are terrible at fending off Republican efforts to define what any Democrat stands for, all up and down the ballot.

 

[ronntaylor]

I originally was surprised by the hateful comments towards People of Color in this thread. Then I remember this white supremacist based nation has always been hostile to non-whites. Shame on me for expecting better. When people say "This isn't who we are." I always remember that this is exactly who and what this country is all about. Kids were separated from their family, caged in horrible conditions, suffering assaults, sexual violence and even death. And the Justice Department, not the Biden Administration as falsely claimed in the title, is attempting to offer some compensation. Fuck all that other noise.

 

[Herdfan]

If he wins tonight: this would be McAuliffe's second, nonconsecutive term as governor of Virginia.

How does Harris fit into this scenario? However the Rs will peg her, since the Dems are terrible at fending off Republican efforts to define what any Democrat stands for, all up and down the ballot.

And if he loses? Or sqeaks by? Read an article that theorized that VA is 5% Bluer than the population as a whole, and Biden beating Trump by 10 point should have made almost any Dem an easy winner. So why is he struggling?

As for your second point of what Democrats stand for, do you believe they are 100% honest about what they stand for and what policies they want to enact?

I originally was surprised by the hateful comments towards People of Color in this thread. Then I remember this white supremacist based nation has always been hostile to non-whites. Shame on me for expecting better. When people say "This isn't who we are." I always remember that this is exactly who and what this country is all about. Kids were separated from their family, caged in horrible conditions, suffering assaults, sexual violence and even death. And the Justice Department, not the Biden Administration as falsely claimed in the title, is attempting to offer some compensation. Fuck all that other noise.

Everything you just said may be true. But the payments will not play well in most of America. So no matter who does it, or why they do it, there will be a political price for the party that does it. And I think that is what @JagRunner , @Chew Toy McCoy, and myself are trying to say. Not wanting to put words in their mouths, but that is the gist of how I read their posts. They can correct me if I have misstated their points.

So you may be on the right side of the issue, but that may also put you in the minority in Congress.

 

[lizkat]

And if he loses? Or sqeaks by? Read an article that theorized that VA is 5% Bluer than the population as a whole, and Biden beating Trump by 10 point should have made almost any Dem an easy winner. So why is he struggling?

Because Joe's agenda is struggling to look like it's even in limbo, because Dems have a skinny trifecta, because Chuck is not as good as Nancy at herding cats, because McAuliffe can be condescending sometimes (or even obnoxious) and because it's an off-off year.... which is often even worse than a midterm year for getting people to the polls.

But if turnout is high and McAuliffe loses, it might be hard to figure whether it's over Joe or Terry.

The Dems really do suck at messaging, either way. I have never been sure why.

As for your second point of what Democrats stand for, do you believe they are 100% honest about what they stand for and what policies they want to enact?

No. and it's catching up to them and the progressive Dems are who are holding their feet to the fire on stuff like climate change and social contract efforts. Why do you think Stacey Abrams is running around the country right now if she's only going to run again for a governor's slot in Georgia?

Maybe people of color have had enough of corporate Democrats (most of them white) talking the talk but then saying "oops it's the Rs obstructing us but trust us, we have the recipe and next time's the charm."

But I'm speaking strictly of messaging here, e.g. the Dems seem not nearly as effective as Rs in categorizing the opposition negatively or defining their own programs as compellingly attractive.

 

[Joe]

No one is being hateful towards people of color. I would say the same thing if they were white illegal immigrants from Europe. We shouldn't be paying these people money for a situation they put themselves in. I don't care what political party does it, we shouldn't do it.

They suffered horrible conditions, assaults, violence, and death on their way here but we should pay them for it because the US put them in a cage instead of The Westin? I have a friend that adopted the baby of an illegal immigrant because she was raped by someone in the group that she traveled with and she didn't want to keep the baby. So yeah, horrible things are happening to them all the time but we shouldn't pay them for it. Y'all act like they're coming over here in a 1st class jet and then were put in cages. Have any of you been to Mexico? And I'm not talking Cancun and Cabo. I have. It's not the greatest conditions. I'm talking about homes with dirt floors, no running water, no indoor restroom. Roofs made of palm trees. I had to boil water just to take a shower the last time I visited. I was shitting in an outhouse. And y'all think the US putting them in cages was worse than what they were fleeing? Give me a break.

I, myself, am a person of color. 35% Native American so spare me the hate towards people of color. I just have a problem with paying these people for coming over illegally when we have our own people struggling daily. I don't care what color they are. The lady in the NY Times example is gonna get hundreds of thousands of dollars for her and her son to go to college, but legal citizens have to go in student loan debt. Yeah, that's not gonna fly with a bunch of people. People are already pissed with gas prices and now they'll hear that illegal immigrants are getting millions. Good luck with that.

 

[SuperMatt]

I originally was surprised by the hateful comments towards People of Color in this thread. Then I remember this white supremacist based nation has always been hostile to non-whites. Shame on me for expecting better. When people say "This isn't who we are." I always remember that this is exactly who and what this country is all about. Kids were separated from their family, caged in horrible conditions, suffering assaults, sexual violence and even death. And the Justice Department, not the Biden Administration as falsely claimed in the title, is attempting to offer some compensation. Fuck all that other noise.

This has been an enlightening thread to be sure, and not in a good way.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

........



Everything you just said may be true. But the payments will not play well in most of America. So no matter who does it, or why they do it, there will be a political price for the party that does it. And I think that is what @JagRunner , @Chew Toy McCoy, and myself are trying to say. Not wanting to put words in their mouths, but that is the gist of how I read their posts. They can correct me if I have misstated their points.

So you may be on the right side of the issue, but that may also put you in the minority in Congress.

Is a possible political price the only measure of worth in this?

Sometimes, the issue is bigger than the political price one might pay, because it is a moral, or ethical issue, one that transcends a possible political price.

A signal needed to be sent that it is not acceptable - ever - to treat people, human beings, above all, children, in such a manner, and that the (current) government not just deplores this, but repudiates it.

Or, put another way, sometimes the political price is worth paying because to do otherwise, is to somehow be complicit in crude and cruel attempts to deprive others of the right to be treated as a human being.

Putting children in cages is grotesque.

The Trump administration - with the calculated cruelty of the sort of sick sadism that was such a marked feature of that appalling and morally rotten government - separated familes and deliberately chose to put chidren in cages, - what a grotesque thing to do, one asks what sort of depraved mind comes up with such calculated cruelty - knowingly, that is, knowing that this would utterly traumatise the children and their families, hurt them, humiliate them, degrade and dismiss and deny their humanity, and deliberately traumatise them.

And it is necessary to announce - with damages, measured in money, for, an apology in words won't quite cut in, not when language had become so debased under Mr Trump's administration - that this was wrong, that the current administration (which does have some sort of ethical core) accepts and admits that this was wrong, and is attempting to redress this monstrous wrong.

An acknowledgement, a recognition that this is wrong - wrong on so many levels, but especially wrong in a country and culture that caged people of colour (while denying their humanity) as part of the socio-economic - and legal - culture of a significant section of that country - is necessary, and the form such public recognition - and indeed, restitution - takes is often financial.

And, to my mind, not only is this entirely appropriate, but I applaud the administration of Mr Biden for taking this step.

 

[lizkat]

That under Trump they went around the rule on length of detention by just porting the kids out to wherever wherever as fast as possible and didn't even track their whereabouts properly should be a criminal offense, not just a matter of civil suits. Last time I saw numbers they'd only located 52 for sure with some leads on 200 more.

 

[ronntaylor]

No one is being hateful towards people of color. I would say the same thing if they were white illegal immigrants from Europe.

That's some bullshit IF as it happened to Brown people, not "white illegal immigrants from Europe" that we know are all over the country. From New England & the Northeast where there are tens of thousands of Irish alone, down to Florida with pregnant Russian women that openly plan to give birth at Mango's properties, paying tens of thousands of dollars for the honor. They're referred to as "unauthorized" and "tourism births" when they're white, but "illegals" and "anchor babies" when they are Black, Brown or Asian.

 

[thekev]

Agree. She doesn't do well when having to answer questions she doesn't want to answer.

But will she be automatically elevated to the nomination as the sitting VP? Or maybe even sitting POTUS by the time we get there?

I'm not actually sure. She wasn't that popular among Democrats, and I don't see any mention of huge changes there. News sites seem to be mixed on this, and I haven't looked at polls in great depth. She was never particularly popular among liberals, due to her track record as district attorney. I don't expect her to coast through the primaries.

I'm guessing Trump will certainly run again if he's in sufficiently good health to do so. He hasn't announced it yet, but I assume this is to avoid running afoul of campaign finance laws surrounding any fundraising activities. There's also the matter of whether the guy is genuinely up to running when we hit 2024.

 

[Pumbaa]

We shouldn't be paying these people money for a situation they put themselves in.

That’s why it is really important to ask rape victims about their clothing and sexual history, etc. It is perfectly fine to do illegal things to people as long as they put themselves in a situation to be victims.

 

[SuperMatt]

That’s why it is really important to ask rape victims about their clothing and sexual history, etc. It is perfectly fine to do illegal things to people as long as they put themselves in a situation to be victims.

To take this even further and to match the real cruelty of Trump’s policy, it’s ok to imprison the child resulting from the rape because mom put herself in that situation.

 

[Joe]

That’s why it is really important to ask rape victims about their clothing and sexual history, etc. It is perfectly fine to do illegal things to people as long as they put themselves in a situation to be victims.

No one is talking about rape victims. People are moving the goal post because they know I’m right. First, it was “I’m being mean to people of color” now I’m going after rape victims?

I love how everyone here skips over my experiences with illegal immigration because the only thing they know about it is what they hear on CNN.

 

[Herdfan]

Is a possible political price the only measure of worth in this?

Sometimes, the issue is bigger than the political price one might pay, because it is a moral, or ethical issue, one that transcends a possible political price.

A signal needed to be sent that it is not acceptable - ever - to treat people, human beings, above all, children, in such a manner, and that the (current) government not just deplores this, but repudiates it.

Or, put another way, sometimes the political price is worth paying because to do otherwise, is to somehow be complicit in crude and cruel attempts to deprive others of the right to be treated as a human being.

Putting children in cages is grotesque.


And, to my mind, not only is this entirely appropriate, but I applaud the administration of Mr Biden for taking this step.

Then Mr. Biden needs to get out of his basement and go out and sell it to the American people of why it is a good idea. Because if he doesn't, people are going to come up with their own version and you may end up with a Veto proof GOP Congress.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

No one is talking about rape victims. People are moving the goal post because they know I’m right. First, it was “I’m being mean to people of color” now I’m going after rape victims?

I love how everyone here skips over my experiences with illegal immigration because the only thing they know about it is what they hear on CNN.

No matter what the context, there are no circumstances whatsoever - not ever, never - that justify the sheer, sadistic cruelty of putting children in cages and separating them from their families.

I'm with @lizkat on this; not only does it justify the payment of civil damages, it ought to be considered a criminal offence.

We shouldn't be paying these people money for a situation they put themselves in. I don't care what political party does it, we shouldn't do it.

If we wrong them, - if we not just fail to live up to our own standards, but traduce our own standards by the appalling way in which we treat them - yes, we should acknowledge that wrong.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

And if he loses? Or sqeaks by? Read an article that theorized that VA is 5% Bluer than the population as a whole, and Biden beating Trump by 10 point should have made almost any Dem an easy winner. So why is he struggling?

As for your second point of what Democrats stand for, do you believe they are 100% honest about what they stand for and what policies they want to enact?



Everything you just said may be true. But the payments will not play well in most of America. So no matter who does it, or why they do it, there will be a political price for the party that does it. And I think that is what @JagRunner , @Chew Toy McCoy, and myself are trying to say. Not wanting to put words in their mouths, but that is the gist of how I read their posts. They can correct me if I have misstated their points.

So you may be on the right side of the issue, but that may also put you in the minority in Congress.

A lot of what I’ve been posting lately is trying to take the view of the moderate or independent voter who doesn’t take the threat of authoritarianism seriously and bases their vote on the actions or inactions of the current administration.

As a handicap for Democrats right wing media tends to lean heavy on what Democrats could do as opposed to what they’ve actually done or even come close to doing and the viewer sees the could dos as a done deal. Conversely, Republicans have a nice long current track record of what they actually have done. It’s not theoretical could happens. Look at Texas in the last couple of months as an example.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Because Joe's agenda is struggling to look like it's even in limbo, because Dems have a skinny trifecta, because Chuck is not as good as Nancy at herding cats, because McAuliffe can be condescending sometimes (or even obnoxious) and because it's an off-off year.... which is often even worse than a midterm year for getting people to the polls.

But if turnout is high and McAuliffe loses, it might be hard to figure whether it's over Joe or Terry.

The Dems really do suck at messaging, either way. I have never been sure why.



No. and it's catching up to them and the progressive Dems are who are holding their feet to the fire on stuff like climate change and social contract efforts. Why do you think Stacey Abrams is running around the country right now if she's only going to run again for a governor's slot in Georgia?

Maybe people of color have had enough of corporate Democrats (most of them white) talking the talk but then saying "oops it's the Rs obstructing us but trust us, we have the recipe and next time's the charm."

But I'm speaking strictly of messaging here, e.g. the Dems seem not nearly as effective as Rs in categorizing the opposition negatively or defining their own programs as compellingly attractive.

At this point I see little difference between a party that affectively blocks legislation and a party that is incapable of passing legislation. It's the same end result and most people aren't interested in a 100 specific excuses for 100 specific failures. Shit just didn't get done.

 

[Herdfan]

A lot of what I’ve been posting lately is trying to take the view of the moderate or independent voter who doesn’t take the threat of authoritarianism seriously and bases their vote on the actions or inactions of the current administration.

This person also doesn't watch the news 24/7 or even think politics as a daily part of their lives.

 

[Herdfan]

At this point I see little difference between a party that affectively blocks legislation and a party that is incapable of passing legislation. It's the same end result and most people aren't interested in a 100 specific excuses for 100 specific failures. Shit just didn't get done.

Let's face it, the GOP can't block anything the Dems want to pass. It's not the GOP's fault the Dems can't convince 2 members to go along with their plan. And after yesterday, there may be more than 2.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

No one is being hateful towards people of color. I would say the same thing if they were white illegal immigrants from Europe. We shouldn't be paying these people money for a situation they put themselves in. I don't care what political party does it, we shouldn't do it.

They suffered horrible conditions, assaults, violence, and death on their way here but we should pay them for it because the US put them in a cage instead of The Westin? I have a friend that adopted the baby of an illegal immigrant because she was raped by someone in the group that she traveled with and she didn't want to keep the baby. So yeah, horrible things are happening to them all the time but we shouldn't pay them for it. Y'all act like they're coming over here in a 1st class jet and then were put in cages. Have any of you been to Mexico? And I'm not talking Cancun and Cabo. I have. It's not the greatest conditions. I'm talking about homes with dirt floors, no running water, no indoor restroom. Roofs made of palm trees. I had to boil water just to take a shower the last time I visited. I was shitting in an outhouse. And y'all think the US putting them in cages was worse than what they were fleeing? Give me a break.

I, myself, am a person of color. 35% Native American so spare me the hate towards people of color. I just have a problem with paying these people for coming over illegally when we have our own people struggling daily. I don't care what color they are. The lady in the NY Times example is gonna get hundreds of thousands of dollars for her and her son to go to college, but legal citizens have to go in student loan debt. Yeah, that's not gonna fly with a bunch of people. People are already pissed with gas prices and now they'll hear that illegal immigrants are getting millions. Good luck with that.

I agree reflexively yelling racism at every situation involving non white people while ignoring all other factors relevant to that situation is getting played out. That doesn’t mean racism is never involved. It’s just not the only factor that should be scrutinized in each specific situation. It kind of reminds me of when Republicans demanded Obama call every violent act by non white people terrorism and honestly all they cared about was that label. If they could get him to do that then that was somehow a victory but solved nothing.