Biden administration to pay migrants separated at border millions of dollars

ronntaylor

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Look, I don't know where you live, your life experiences or any of that. I also don't know what it is like to live in the inner city.

But where I live, minorities are members of the community same as everyone else. We eat at the same restaurants, shop at the same stores, go to the same schools, play on the same sports teams. They pursue their happieness just like the rest of us. Now they may face some challenges I don't see, but to say they are 2nd Class citizens would be grossly incorrect.
Reading is fundamental. Fighting for change and not worrying about what those that aren't for you think is pointless and paralyzing. Think critically.

And this is a nice touch: "Look, I don't know where you live, your life experiences or any of that. I also don't know what it is like to live in the inner city." Oy vey!
 

Herdfan

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Bullshit. He wrote "there are people on the right who believe the lie that illegals were given health insurance," not that a particular "supports" a provision that has no chance of getting to the floor, let alone being passed.

Why do they believe it? Because someone who almost got the Dem nomination, twice, said it. The left goes nuts when MTG or LB says something outrageous that has no chance of becoming law, so you can't complain when the other side does it.
 

ronntaylor

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Why do they believe it? Because someone who almost got the Dem nomination, twice, said it. The left goes nuts when MTG of LB says something outrageous that has no chance of becoming law, so you can't complain when the other side does it.
Doing you even believe the bullshit you spread? They believe a lie because they're shitty humans if all evidence is contrary to the lie. Rethugicans you mentioned are not simply saying "something outrageous that has no chance of becoming law" as we can see with the anti-CRT crowd. Their statements are jumped on when they sprout anti-Jewish bullshit. When they threaten people with harm. When they are part of a coup attempt.
 

Herdfan

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Doing you even believe the bullshit you spread? They believe a lie because they're shitty humans if all evidence is contrary to the lie. Rethugicans you mentioned are not simply saying "something outrageous that has no chance of becoming law" as we can see with the anti-CRT crowd. Their statements are jumped on when they sprout anti-Jewish bullshit. When they threaten people with harm. When they are part of a coup attempt.

Yet the Dems can spout anti-Jewish bullshit and get defended or it is ignored. Pretty sure Omar and Tlaib hate Jews way more than any Republican in Congress.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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So Dems should cower over what the GOP will think about them. They should take into consideration the feelings of those that are not interested in doing anything for them? They should forget about doing the morally right thing because people that won't vote for them don't like it.

If Dems in the past and even more recently used that thinking Black people would still be in quasi-slavery. Women would be barefoot and pregnant, catering to every whim of men. People of color would be 2nd class citizens. Catering to fear and hate leaves us fearful and hateful.

It’s very simple. At this point the Democrats are going to be seen as accomplishing more for immigrants than the American people and that’s all a lot of voters are going to see, or enough votes to decide an election.

Some people need to get through their skulls that this isn’t normal “lose some/win some” times. Nearly 100% of Republicans are dedicated to dismantling rights and democracy. If Democrats are incapable of passing popular legislation and then shift all their attention to highly divisive issues then they are going to lose government positions and Republicans will steamroll their agenda through making things much for the left than what it already is.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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So you're for fining and/or convicting businesses/business people that knowingly employ them? Putting them in jail if need be? Are you ready to see fields of rotting crops because they are often the only ones willing to work those fields?

Immigrants, legal and "illegal" are a net benefit for this country. The latter group pays taxes that they can never recoup in any form. They keep prices down. The avarice of businesses that exploit them keep wages down, but that's on those that do the exploiting, not those that are exploited.

Republicans don’t want to do serious immigration reform because, like gun control and abortion, they need to keep it a hot issue to rile up their base and keep their support. improving or fixing it would remove it from their outrage deck of cards.
 

Pumbaa

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Man, what a world we live in when people want to hand money to illegal immigrants. What a time to be alive!

Screw the single mother working 2 jobs while HER CHILDREN stay home ALONE all night long. Lets give millions to illegal immigrants because they were separated at the border and put in cages, even though the conditions in their home countries are worse.

Why stop there? Lets send money back to the families of those that don't make it and die of starvation or dehydration on American soil. Killed by a Coyote (not the animal) on American Soil? Here is $450k!

A lot of folks here are out of touch with reality. I don't mean any disrespect but when people here are dropping $3k+ on Macbook Pros and other Apple products you're out of touch with most Americans. A lot of struggling Americans are gonna have issues with illegal immigrants getting all this money while they struggle. That is my whole point.
I don’t want to hand money to illegal immigrants. I don’t want to have big payouts to victims of police violence and so on either. I want things to be handled in a legal and ethical manner, respectful of human rights, so that there is no need for payouts.

It is a fucked-up country. That single mother of yours shouldn’t have to work two jobs leaving her children alone at night. The wage from one job should be enough, and affordable childcare should be available. But nooo, y’all so focused on fighting for scraps and having someone below you on the ladder to kick down on. It’s fine if you’re worthless as long as other people have it even worse. Heck. illegal immigrants are basically the saviors of status quo. They keep people angry and focused on the wrong things.
 

Herdfan

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I don’t want to hand money to illegal immigrants. I don’t want to have big payouts to victims of police violence and so on either. I want things to be handled in a legal and ethical manner, respectful of human rights, so that there is no need for payouts.
Don't mean to point you out specifically, but do you or anyone realize just how much money you are talking about them getting?

Our service personnel's families get $100K* for the loss of life. Read that again, $100K for the loss of their life. And you want to give a family $1M for being separated. Maybe you can't justify those numbers, but the average American trying to provide for their families can't. And won't.

* Note, there is an additional $400K that deceased families can access, but it is life insurance and the member has to pay into it. But the payment from the taxpayers is $100K.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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It’s fine if you’re worthless as long as other people have it even worse.

I think there is a lot of that going on, on the right, right now because there is a lot of financial hardship being experienced by white people that used to be reserved for minorities. While white people were doing comparatively fine they were also hearing a lot about affirmative action and the NAACP. So now that white people are experiencing poor economic conditions they think minorities have already had all their issues fixed through special programs and if they didn’t then it’s the individual’s damn fault. It’s time for special programs for white people.
 

Joe

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I should stop commenting on this issue. Once someone told me my experiences and stories growing up in south Texas around illegal immigrants didn't count or were not relevant LOL

Y'all have a good day :)
 

Herdfan

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I should stop commenting on this issue. Once someone told me my experiences and stories growing up in south Texas around illegal immigrants didn't count or were not relevant LOL

Y'all have a good day :)

I would say that is extremely relevant. :)
 

Herdfan

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I think there is a lot of that going on, on the right, right now because there is a lot of financial hardship being experienced by white people that used to be reserved for minorities. While white people were doing comparatively fine they were also hearing a lot about affirmative action and the NAACP. So now that white people are experiencing poor economic conditions they think minorities have already had all their issues fixed through special programs and if they didn’t then it’s the individual’s damn fault. It’s time for special programs for white people.

How about jobs for all people.

But if you want $15-$20/hr, you need to be a $15-20/hr worker.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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How about jobs for all people.

But if you want $15-$20/hr, you need to be a $15-20/hr worker.

I think that depends on what jobs you think should support the local cost of living and what you think is a reasonable lifestyle within that cost of living. I mean that as a general question, not you specifically. I see a lot of adults now doing jobs that kids were doing when I was a kid. You can pay kids less because they are typically still living at home and don't have adult expenses, hopefully they are contributing some to their parents' expenses. I don't really have an answer explaining why adults are now doing those jobs, but I don't feel like they should be paid like kids with no real expenses. And in a lot of cases they still qualify for government assistance. So that's not really solving much.

I also don't really support a $15 federal minimum wage. It should be raised but by percentage. There's a wide range of cost of living around the country. You shouldn't have somebody living like a king off minimum wage while somebody in another city with the same job is struggling to make ends meet.
 

lizkat

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Man, what a world we live in when people want to hand money to illegal immigrants. What a time to be alive!

Screw the single mother working 2 jobs while HER CHILDREN stay home ALONE all night long. Lets give millions to illegal immigrants because they were separated at the border and put in cages, even though the conditions in their home countries are worse.

Why stop there? Lets send money back to the families of those that don't make it and die of starvation or dehydration on American soil. Killed by a Coyote (not the animal) on American Soil? Here is $450k!

A lot of folks here are out of touch with reality. I don't mean any disrespect but when people here are dropping $3k+ on Macbook Pros and other Apple products you're out of touch with most Americans. A lot of struggling Americans are gonna have issues with illegal immigrants getting all this money while they struggle. That is my whole point.

You have a point but only because you (and the GOP) are conflating very disparate situations, and it's not one the Republicans should shine a spotlight on. Even more frankly, the Dems should also be careful how they react to what the GOP is carping about now with respect to the Biden administration's proposed settlements on disrupted immigrant families.

Both the Rs and Ds should put more focus on the downside of not making these settlements, and the fact that juries would undoubtedly end up settling billions more bucks on these families than the total the DoJ is proposing.

It's not like if the DoJ says "ok you're right it's too much money" that the problem of the lawsuits will vanish.

Moving on to the matter of either party being stupid enough to conflate the situation of the 2000 disrupted immigrant families with the plight of impoverished and working poor families who reside in the USA legally:
There's never been ongoing and so even half-adequate American press coverage of the day to day horrors in the USA of the working poor. Take a family where the dad is a McD's manager and has 2 other jobs along with mom's 2 jobs and that's just to make sure that their rent, the utilities and both used car payments get met, not to ensure there would always be enough food on the table, or ever anything left for clothes, shoes or car repairs.​
I knew that guy from my trips upstate while I was a weekend commuter for five of Reagan's 8 years in office. And that's the family the GOP still later wanted to cut food stamps for because if you work you don't need food stamps, right? A dollar earned in exchange for a dollar of public benefit cut?​
Well it seemed a right formula to Paul Ryan's GOP. And now there's even a later version, now it's about how if you got stimulus checks and extended unemployment you must be rolling in dough so let's not disincentivize work any further, it's time for everyman who doesn't have a nest egg to get off his butt and catch chickens or clean bathrooms or code 25k lines a week bug-free for $17 per hour remote from his two-bedroom apartment shared with five other people in the same boat. "Working poor" is making its way up the white collar jobs ladder thanks to the too long ignored shortage of affordable housing.​
But never mind: If the Rs win the midterms you can expect yet another round of attacks on food stamps, home heat assistance, section 8 housing, etc. because work is dignity and dignity is key. Key to keeping taxes off the backs of the wealthy.​
And if the Dems prevail? Well there's the question of who's going to pay for the real and social cost of inflation, reduced public benefits, failure to fund adequately the erstwhile thrashed bits of "Build Back Better"? The Dems aren't able to get agreement that the time for use of fossil fuels is closing and it's critical, urgent, to invest in renewables --and also a good way to improve employment and so consumer spending in recovering the economy from the lingering effects of the pandemic. Meanwhile the Ds allow the Rs to amplify voices of people complaining about gas prices, as if lowering the price of gas were a reasonable solution. It's not. It's time to subsidize renwables including use in affordable transportation, and time to let the failure of Solyndra be what it was, not a catastrophe but a single example of risk taking that didn't work out, same as any venture capitalist can come up with when pressed to admit a less than perfect record.​
And let's not blithely say that everyone will suffer if things can't be worked out in budget negotiations across the aisle. No way. Congress and K Street do know how to take care of their own and their donors.​
So far it still works to build higher walls and turn the volume up on the noise cancelling headphones. It's always the downtrodden and what's left of the middle class that takes the hits. Last hired, first fired doesn't begin to cover the abuse. What's not being noticed though is that the level of suffering is creeping up the ladders. Eventually, "no wall high enough".​
I read exactly one newspaper article during the Obama era about the impact on rural working poor of the "cash for clunkers" law and the perceived sin (in the eyes of the working poor) of government-mandated pouring of concrete into engines of those ol' cars because there's such a dearth of public transportation options in rural America. One piece. Past that the newspapers were focused on how great it was that Bush and Obama worked together on righting the economy. Well yeah, there was that. I'm pretty sure the single mom of 2 trying to roll-start her dead-batt car down the hill to get to her fast food job 50 icy miles away really thought a lot about how cool it was that a current and past prez of the USA were righting the fucking economy. Oh okay she might have wondered how she'd cope when this used car finally gave up the ghost altogether, because no one she knew had been able to scout up another rat car either.​
So there's that. Neither the Dems nor the Republicans should shine a light on how this country treats the poor who are born right here but meant to fend for themselves in the fake meritocracy of "not my zip code, not my problem".​
Anyway. So broke Americans will get all pissed off that gubbmint money is going to help undocumented families who should never have come here to begin with? Probably true they'll be angry if they even hear about it. And they will hear about it if the GOP and Fox News have anything to say about it, which they will. But, there's an elitist assumption by at least the Dems that every broke ass citizen is exposed to the lies on Fox News 24/7. The set might be on but no one's got time or energy to listen. Staying alive when broke is exhausting. Politics is really optional.

The more interesting point to me is that by now those same broke Americans don't even wonder why the GOP now whines about having begrudged them a hand up off the basement floor during the covid pandemic. It's part and parcel of the background noise.

See it's been a really long time since this country officially and EFFECTIVELY gave a crap about anything or anyone past the markets, their stakeholders and CEOs and their corporate rights to buy all the free speech they can buy with their windfall of offshored profits brought home clear of taxes.

Anyone who thinks the Trump and Biden administrations' stimulus efforts were for anything but saving the markets has not been paying attention.... since way back when a US government and its financial advisors decided Lehman wasn't too big to fail and only then realized there was a really big bunch of too-clever-by-half but suddenly starving dogs attached to that little tail.

As for immigration reform, well... there are pols on both sides of the political fence in the USA who would rather have the issue -- framed as they respectively choose to frame it-- than pitch in to help manage the scope of a true reform bill and shepherd its passage to the desk of a President willing to sign it. The last time we had a decent chance of getting that done was actually back in the administration of Bush 43. He understood we needed a good guest worker program and that fair wages and recognition of taxes paid and benefits made available would only strengthen the economy and the social fabric of the country.

Biden may understand that too but thanks to the likes of Stephen Miller and Trump having poisoned the well, he and any Republican pols actually favoring immigration reform won't find many Republican voters looking for anything past more border security and lower quotas even for documented immigrants. So it's true that nothing about the settlement of money on the famlies whose lives the Trump administration disrupted will sit well with those Republicans. It's still necessary for both parties to acknowledge that the lawsuits are not going away and that a settlement is preferable to imagining that jury trials (and appeals) will prove less expensive to the Treasury.
 

SuperMatt

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If it isn't being taught, why would it matter if it is banned from being taught?
I could have sworn you were active in the thread about the Texas anti-CRT law. We’ve already been over why these anti-CRT laws are a huge problem. They are government censorship, which I THOUGHT Trump supporters were against. I guess they’re only against it if it’s Trump shouting “Fire!” in a crowded theater, so to speak.
 

SuperMatt

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Yet the Dems can spout anti-Jewish bullshit and get defended or it is ignored. Pretty sure Omar and Tlaib hate Jews way more than any Republican in Congress.
This is utter and complete nonsense. They are opposed to Israel’s oppressive policies towards Palestine. Period. They are not anti-jewish. Right-wingers pretend to support Jewish people, but they really only support Israel because 1) evangelicals believe something about Israel and the 2nd coming of Jesus or the end of the world or something and 2) They see Israel as a force fighting against Iran and other Muslim-led countries in the Middle East.

You honestly can’t see the difference between being anti-Semitic and being against the policies of the nation of Israel?
 

ronntaylor

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I think there is a lot of that going on, on the right, right now because there is a lot of financial hardship being experienced by white people that used to be reserved for minorities.

That's been the case for the white working class forever. From the very early days of biracial unionization efforts more than a century and a half ago. Through the 60s when LBJ detailed the framework of white supremacists (that he cozied up to and he was a part of in his early congressional career):

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ, circa1966

But if you want $15-$20/hr, you need to be a $15-20/hr worker.

If the MW had continued to match productivity gains over the past 50+ years it would've been about $24/hour at the start of this year. Some places have timeframes of $15/hour by 2025 (or even later) when if current productivity trends continue, it should be about $30/hour by then. Medical assistants, home health aides, EMT/EMS workers, child care workers and many similar jobs average below $15/hour now in many places in the US, especially in the South and Right-to-Work-for-Less states. Taxpayers pay for those low wages via TANF, Medicaid and CHIP, etc. to the tune of hundreds of billions.
 

Pumbaa

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Don't mean to point you out specifically, but do you or anyone realize just how much money you are talking about them getting?
I do. I also consider the specific amount of money to be a separate question from whether or not the government (or others) should pay out money for violations. Governments need to be held to the highest standards.

As for how much money: From my point of view most reported payouts from lawsuits and settlements in the US are just plain ridiculous and this one is no exception. Not that it matters what I think about the amounts, the courts should deal with that. If settlements are offered I‘d bet they have been carefully calculated to be way cheaper than the alternative while still being high enough to get them accepted.

Our service personnel's families get $100K* for the loss of life. Read that again, $100K for the loss of their life. And you want to give a family $1M for being separated. Maybe you can't justify those numbers, but the average American trying to provide for their families can't. And won't.

* Note, there is an additional $400K that deceased families can access, but it is life insurance and the member has to pay into it. But the payment from the taxpayers is $100K.
Apples to oranges, but a powerful and popular way to frame things.

Still: Maybe the $1M is wrong. Maybe the $100K is wrong. Maybe both are wrong.
 

Herdfan

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You honestly can’t see the difference between being anti-Semitic and being against the policies of the nation of Israel?

About as well as I can see the differences between being against Obama's policies vs being called a racist.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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That's been the case for the white working class forever. From the very early days of biracial unionization efforts more than a century and a half ago. Through the 60s when LBJ detailed the framework of white supremacists (that he cozied up to and he was a part of in his early congressional career):

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ, circa1966



If the MW had continued to match productivity gains over the past 50+ years it would've been about $24/hour at the start of this year. Some places have timeframes of $15/hour by 2025 (or even later) when if current productivity trends continue, it should be about $30/hour by then. Medical assistants, home health aides, EMT/EMS workers, child care workers and many similar jobs average below $15/hour now in many places in the US, especially in the South and Right-to-Work-for-Less states. Taxpayers pay for those low wages via TANF, Medicaid and CHIP, etc. to the tune of hundreds of billions.

I heard recently about a study that said if the wealth gap/balance stayed at what it was up to the 70’s then everybody now would be making over $1,000 more a month.
 
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