COVID Stupid

[MEJHarrison]

But what happens when so many healthcare workers get fired and YOU need critical care and there are no ICU beds, not because they are filled with COVID patients, but because there are not enough workers to staff them?

You do the right thing because it's the right thing to do, not because you got a particular percentage of people to agree to it. You don't let the vocal minority manipulate you into doing the dumb thing. You don't let the stupid dictate what is reasonable.

Maybe some bad things will happen as a consequence. But you'd need to prove nothing bad would happen by doing the wrong thing before you'd have a valid argument. All you have at this point is hypotheticals.

If none of that makes sense, I leave you with a hypothetical of my own: But what happens when so many healthcare workers get fired keep working and YOU need critical care and there are no ICU beds, not because they are filled with COVID patients, but because there are not enough workers to staff them due to them catching it from the very people who are supposed to be there healing people?

As long as we're making up scenarios, I think mine is every bit as valid as yours.

 

[Alli]

Many on this board cheer when people get fired for not getting vaccinated. And that's fine, you have the freedom and right.

But what happens when so many healthcare workers get fired and YOU need critical care and there are no ICU beds, not because they are filled with COVID patients, but because there are not enough workers to staff them?

I refuse to be treated by an unvaccinated health-care worker.

 

[User.45]

Deadly (NPI).

The Vaccine Mandate For Healthcare Workers Means Hospitals Are Losing Staff

New York healthcare workers must be vaccinated for COVID-19 or lose their jobs. At one rural hospital, opposition to the vaccine is exacerbating an existing labor shortage, forcing cuts to services.

www.npr.org

Vaccine Mandates Hit Amid Historic Health-Care Staff Shortage

Nearly one in four beds lies empty at TaraVista Behavioral Health Center in central Massachusetts -- not for lack of patients, but for lack of staff.

www.bloomberg.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oregon/articles/2021-10-07/vaccine-mandate-latest-hurdle-in-oregon-nursing-shortage

Yes, 90% is a good number, but can the state's healthcare system afford to lose 10% of their nurses when they are already short staffed?

Another thought. We asked these HC workers to help us during the pandemic. They put themselves and their families at risk to take care of those seriously ill with COVID. Now we are ready to kick them to the curb. The question is what will happen in 5 years when the next virus escapes from a lab? Are they going to be willing to do it again?

Oh, absolutely fuck you, LOL

^This is the proportionate effort response to your post above, but below is the response you don't deserve, but still get:

Edit:
NONE of the 3 articles posted by you supports the point you are trying to make. Quite the opposite:

Oregon's hospital staffing issue has been significantly exacerbated during the pandemic. On Thursday, officials from the Oregon Nurses Association said 60% of nurses at the state's largest hospital — Oregon Health & Science University — indicated that they are considering leaving the profession entirely.

“The current nursing crisis the state of Oregon is facing … has been decades in the making,” Natasha Schwartz, a member on the Oregon Nurses Association Board of Directors, said during a news conference. “As we see a small number of nurses potentially leave the profession due to their decision to decline the vaccination, we are also concerned burnout will lead to an even larger number of nurses leaving the bedside — and in Oregon, we will not be able to educate a large enough number of nurses to replace them.”

Health care workers say the staffing crisis is a culmination of issues, including reliance on traveling nurses, pay disparities, “hospital executives who have consistently chosen to put profit ahead of patients” and the pandemic — which has resulted in overworked and exhausted employees.

In contrast, they mostly support that assholes exacerbating the pandemic drive away nurses from the profession.

 

[SuperMatt]

Deadly (NPI).

The Vaccine Mandate For Healthcare Workers Means Hospitals Are Losing Staff

New York healthcare workers must be vaccinated for COVID-19 or lose their jobs. At one rural hospital, opposition to the vaccine is exacerbating an existing labor shortage, forcing cuts to services.

www.npr.org

Vaccine Mandates Hit Amid Historic Health-Care Staff Shortage

Nearly one in four beds lies empty at TaraVista Behavioral Health Center in central Massachusetts -- not for lack of patients, but for lack of staff.

www.bloomberg.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/oregon/articles/2021-10-07/vaccine-mandate-latest-hurdle-in-oregon-nursing-shortage

Yes, 90% is a good number, but can the state's healthcare system afford to lose 10% of their nurses when they are already short staffed?

Another thought. We asked these HC workers to help us during the pandemic. They put themselves and their families at risk to take care of those seriously ill with COVID. Now we are ready to kick them to the curb. The question is what will happen in 5 years when the next virus escapes from a lab? Are they going to be willing to do it again?

The NUMBER ONE complaint from nurses is that people aren’t getting the vaccine, and showing up demanding treatment. You really are working hard to make sure that this thread is aptly named.

I highly recommend the video I posted. See what healthcare workers in WV are going through because nobody will get the vaccine. Then look what happens when there is a vaccine mandate… people begrudgingly go and get it because they need their jobs. This is good for their health, and also good when they realize it didn’t hurt them to get the shot.

 

[Herdfan]

Yet again, another pile of steaming horseshite posed as a faux question. You can take a break now, you've met your weekly quota.
I think your quarterly "masks are sooo hard, but I comply" swan song is also coming due soon.


The thing is, ICU nurses are the cream of the crop, which also means they are much more likely to understand why vaccines are mandated and thus get vaccinated.. If you cared about the demographic distribution of unvaccinated workers, you'd always see how robust the inverse correlation is with education level and that includes healthcare too, which means it isn't physicians or RNs who are the bulk of the unvaccinated healthcare worker population.

Sorry, but I haven't really been on a mask rant on this board. Maybe a few comments, but nothing like over at PRSI. Mainly because my governor rescinded the mandate and has publicly stated he will not impose another one. So for me, that topic is mainly dead. Besides, I am vaccinated and the President has said on more than one occasion that vaccinated people can't get it or spread it so I don't need a mask anymore anyway. I assume he is correct.

Ok, so it may be the more educated HC workers, but can a hospital function without/with fewer aides, LPN's, cleaning staff or non-patient facing employees?

 

[Herdfan]

The NUMBER ONE complaint from nurses is that people aren’t getting the vaccine, and showing up demanding treatment. You really are working hard to make sure that this thread is aptly named.

I get that. And it is a problem. But not the only problem.

 

[User.45]

Sorry, but I haven't really been on a mask rant on this board. Maybe a few comments, but nothing like over at PRSI. Mainly because my governor rescinded the mandate and has publicly stated he will not impose another one. So for me, that topic is mainly dead. Besides, I am vaccinated and the President has said on more than one occasion that vaccinated people can't get it or spread it so I don't need a mask anymore anyway. I assume he is correct.

Ok, so it may be the more educated HC workers, but can a hospital function without/with fewer aides, LPN's, cleaning staff or non-patient facing employees?

You were trying to make a point about ICUs lacking nurses due to vaccine mandates. LPNs don't belong in an ICU. Nurses aides aren't always that helpful... So you would largely get ICU level of care. Nursing homes is another question, but if you don't understand why people working in nursing homes need to be vaccinated, then you're beyond hope.

 

[Herdfan]

You were trying to make a point about ICUs lacking nurses due to vaccine mandates. LPNs don't belong in an ICU. Nurses aides aren't always that helpful... So you would largely get ICU level of care. Nursing homes is another question, but if you don't understand why people working in nursing homes need to be vaccinated, then you're beyond hope.

I completely understand the need. However, what you, I or anyone else on this board thinks is irrelevant. If healthcare workers are being fired because they are unvaccinated and staffing issues become worse, then it is a problem.

Don't forget, one of the main reasons for me to get vaccinated when I did was so I could visit my mom in an assisted living facility.

 

[Herdfan]

Oh, absolutely fuck you, LOL

^This is the proportionate effort response to your post above, but below is the response you don't deserve, but still get:

Edit:
NONE of the 3 articles posted by you supports the point you are trying to make. Quite the opposite:







In contrast, they mostly support that assholes exacerbating the pandemic drive away nurses from the profession.

I'm sorry, did I trigger you with a non-Fox source? Go find a safe space and I will try to do better.

Yes, some are being driven away due to unvaccinated people. I get that. So with those people leaving and a certain percentage being fired for not being vaccinated, the end result is the same: too few HC workers.

 

[Renzatic]

I completely understand the need. However, what you, I or anyone else on this board thinks is irrelevant. If healthcare workers are being fired because they are unvaccinated and staffing issues become worse, then it is a problem.

And if hospitals decide to keep these people on, and they end up spreading a highly infectious disease in, say, an oncology ward, well, that's a bit of a problem too.

Given that there's no good choice here, they're having to make a decision on whether to go with bad or worse.

 

[Runs For Fun]

My brain cannot twist enough to wrap my mind around this logic. Spend years in college studying this stuff and you complain about getting fired because you won't get a life saving vaccine because reasons. Uh, what???

 

[Renzatic]

My brain cannot twist enough to wrap my mind around this logic. Spend years in college studying this stuff and you complain about getting fired because you won't get a life saving vaccine because reasons. Uh, what???

Hey guys! I spent all this time, money, and effort on a nursing degree, only to get canned because I got caught up in some fucking internet fad!

 

[SuperMatt]

Yes, some are being driven away due to unvaccinated people. I get that. So with those people leaving and a certain percentage being fired for not being vaccinated, the end result is the same: too few HC workers.

The first of these is an actual problem that is quite serious. The source for that info is in the articles you posted.

The problem of people being fired for vaccination is far less serious, as it impacts a very small number of people comparatively. Also, in the article you posted, the firings haven’t happened yet, so they are projecting what might happen. We already know what NOT vaccinating does.

Even people working at Tyson, processing chicken, need to get vaccinated. And they did get vaccinated:

Tyson Foods hits 91 percent vaccination rate two months after mandate announced

Nearly two months after announcing a vaccine mandate for its employees, a top official at Tyson Foods revealed that 91 percent of its workforce is now fully vaccinated against COVID-19.Claudia Copl…

thehill.com

There is literally ZERO excuse to allow healthcare workers to be unvaccinated. If they quit, good. They probably didn’t care about the patients very much to begin with if they were willing to carry diseases that could kill them.

Also, removing unvaccinated healthcare workers reduces the risk of infection for patients, so whatever small loss of workers is experienced, the remaining workers will be part of a safer environment for the patients.

But I guess you aren’t going to let go of this narrative no matter how badly the evidence is stacked against it? It feels like a contrarian stance for no other purpose than to be contrarian. It completely ignores any positive effects of requiring vaccines in the name of ”some healthcare workers might quit.” Yeah, and others might decide to take their jobs, knowing that they will be working with a 100% vaccinated workforce.

 

[Renzatic]

It feels like a contrarian stance for no other purpose than to be contrarian.

That's exactly what this is. I can think of no reason why a large group of people have suddenly decided to doubt 120 years of medical science, and all the experts thereof other than the fact they enjoy pissing in their own mouths for the pure spectacle of it.

 

[User.45]

I'm sorry, did I trigger you with a non-Fox source? Go find a safe space and I will try to do better.

Thanks, these two sentences sum you up quite well:
You receive the effort-proportionate response to your repeatedly not reading YOUR OWN articles that actually contradict the point you're trying make. Yet, you still manage to bring up a conservative talking point about an imaginary phenomenon that has nothing to do with this discussion.

At this point, your primary skill is your absolute lack of shame about the level of ignorance you exhibit. Good on you.

*Luckily though, this is THE right thread for you.

Yes, some are being driven away due to unvaccinated people. I get that. So with those people leaving and a certain percentage being fired for not being vaccinated, the end result is the same: too few HC workers.

You obviously need someone to read your linked articles for you and hold your hand interpreting them. Which one number is higher, 60% (of nurses consider leaving the field) or 10% (who let's say oppose the vaccine)? I'll help, 60% is the higher number, by 6-folds. This suggests that nurses switching careers is much more impactful than a vaccine mandate. If you cared more about nurses leaving the field you could reduce the burn out by not spreading stupid shit on the internetz.

Lastly, I agree with @Alli and @SuperMatt, we don't need nurses who don't believe in vaccines. We might be better off with them looking for another profession.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I refuse to be treated by an unvaccinated health-care worker.

well you will know they have not been vaccinated if they don't glow.

 

[User.45]

well you will know they have not been vaccinated if they don't glow.

You're joking but my workplace sent out glowing badge attachments to indicate your COVID vaxx status...

 

[JayMysteri0]

It's been shown before, but it really does help illustrate what we're dealing with...

 

[JayMysteri0]

Also
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1447351979781595138/

Eric Clapton reportedly donated £1,000 and lent his own van to anti-lockdown music group touring the UK

Eric Clapton reportedly donated £1,000 and lent his own van to UK anti-lockdown music group Jam For Freedom, congratulating the founder for "great work".

www.nme.com

A new Rolling Stone story reports on the guitarist’s support of Jam For Freedom, who describe their purpose as “spearheading the pro-freedom revolution happening globally as a response to restrictions on our basic human rights to work, travel and live” by playing free shows or ‘jams’ in public spaces. One of the group’s songs, ‘We Are The 99%’, features the lyric, “stick your poisonous vaccine up your arse“, the Economist reported in July.

Clapton donated £1,000 to a GoFundMe page to help support the group, its founder Cambel McLaughlin told Rolling Stone. McLaughlin thought it could have been fake, but emailed the account listed with the donation and got a text from Clapton himself.

“It was something complimentary, along the lines of, ‘Hey, it’s Eric – great work you’re doing,’,” McLaughlin said of the text message.

Jam For Freedom revealed Clapton’s donation on social media in April. “Delighted to announce one of the greatest modern musicians alive has helped us stay afloat after damage to our equipment from police recklessness on Saturday,” they wrote at the time, referring to an encounter with the police they had at an anti-lockdown rally in Hyde Park on April 24.

 

[SuperMatt]

This far-right nutter is hospitalized with COVID and still tweeting against vaccines.

Allen West, Republican running for governor of Texas, hospitalized with covid-19

www.msn.com

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1447195964511490052/

He insists on stopping people from getting vaccinated because there are treatments available in the hospital? Yeah there are treatments for HIV too, but we still are looking for a vaccine so that YOU DON’T GET IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

I’m not supposed to wish for people to die, but if somebody actively trying to murder others by lying to them gets killed by a virus in the process, I wouldn’t cry either.