Here comes Iran

MEJHarrison

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Please do better.

Sure, I can do that. It's not about what did or didn't happen in this specific instance. It about being responsible enough to ensure something like that doesn't happen. That's why we have traffic laws specific designed to tell us how to behave around emergency vehicles. Because it's important to have all that sorted out ahead to time to make life easier for those folks to do their jobs. Doing their job properly can literally be the difference between someone living and dying.

Your approach of "it's ok because nothing bad happened" is pretty much the opposite of being responsible.
 

Citysnaps

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That is a meaningless statement. I still haven’t heard any reason that people SHOULD be inconvenienced by this nonsense, other than ”it forces people to pay attention.”

This may be a long shot... Would there be any civil actions those trapped on the bridge could take against the protestors, as many were essentially held captive against their will for hours?

According to news reports some, as an example, were doctors going to work, as well as patients on their way to hospitals for surgeries and medical appointments. No doubt many others were seriously impacted as well.

EDIT: Or maybe even held criminally; via false imprisonment or restraint?
 

Buntschwalbe

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Let me start again from the begining. As far as i understand there's a protest that blocked traffic on the golden gate bridge. People are in disagreement about US policy, in disagreement with a government administration that supports and legitimates cruel deeds in the middle east. @MEJHarrison, @Cmaier, @Citysnaps think the form of protest ist illegitimate, because it stops traffic hinders people in their daily life and routine. You see the protest directed against your freedom, because you could (potentially) be stopped in your daily life. So you feel as a victim.
I would argue that in a living democracy, blockades can be a part of many different forms of protest (if you personally like it or not; i support them in some cases) and should be tolerated.
As you all didn't answer my question: How many times and for how long have you been stopped by protests like this in the last year? I assume the number is so diminishing low, that you rather not admit. So why all this outrage, if you are not really affected by street protests? You seem rather be enraged by the temporary blockade of the golden bridge than a blockade of Gaza.

@MEJHarrison and the whole "thing about first responders cannot do their job". I don't know how protest are organised in the US; where i live, preparing a security lane for ambulances is always organised by the collective, as well as people who deescalate and communicate with police. So just a question of organisation of the blockade/protest. Did you bother to check if the people on the golden Gate bridge prepared so, before confronting them with your accusations?

@Citysnaps. I think your post wants to say, that people forcing their opinion other individuals are selfish, as you include street blockades?
Did you ever had the thought, that i could be selfish that you rather discredit protest against cruelty supported by your government admin as a tradeoff to have a guaranteed free crossing of a bridge?

For People in the US: if i criticise your government, that doesn't means that i see governments in Europe as any better performing or in any kind of higher morality.

I'm not gonna respond to this, because i've never said anything like this. Sad, that you have to argue that way, i expect better from you. I'm really fond of your insights in technology and chip design.
Say whatever the hell you want, but when you do it on my front lawn I reserve the right to unleash the hounds on you, and both the law and general principles of morality are on my side.

I will leave this topic with my own personal rant. Pleas forgive me, because it's daring. :)
You guys must have really sucked, if it were during times like the french revolution or civil liberty protests, which like many other protests defined our rights and democracies.
 
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Citysnaps

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Fascinating:

“Two days before the attack, Iranian officials briefed counterparts from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries on the outlines and timing of their plan for the large-scale strikes on Israel so that those countries could safeguard airspace, the officials said,” according to the WSJ report. “The information was passed along to the U.S., giving Washington and Israel crucial advance warning.”


 

MEJHarrison

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As you all didn't answer my question: How many times and for how long have you been stopped by protests like this in the last year?

0 times.

I assume the number is so diminishing low, that you rather not admit.

I have no problem admitting it.

So why all this outrage, if you are not really affected by street protests?

Google "empathy".

You seem rather be enraged by the temporary blockade of the golden bridge than a blockade of Gaza.

There's not a chance in hell you can infer how I feel about Gaza based on this situation. You're comparing apples and monkeys here. My complaint has nothing to do with what they're saying, it's where and how they're choosing to say it.

@MEJHarrison and the whole "thing about first responders cannot do their job". I don't know how protest are organised in the US; where i live, preparing a security lane for ambulances is always organised by the collective, as well as people who deescalate and communicate with police. So just a question of organisation of the blockade/protest. Did you bother to check if the people on the golden Gate bridge prepared so, before confronting them with your accusations?

I don't know the situation with emergency vehicles. And ultimately it doesn't matter as I'm against such forms of protest, period. If they thought of emergency access, good for them and I'm still against it. If they brought everyone a picnic lunch and $5,000 for their hassles, good for them and I'm still against it. If I jumped the gun on assumptions regarding the emergency access situation, bad on me and I'm still against it. Without any other distractions, I'm still against it.

Let me put it this way. A handful of people have wasted their morning here discussing this topic. And we've basically gone back and forth on whether these people are jerks for doing this or not. There's been no discussion of their core message, just are they jerks or not. What good has it done for the people of Gaza? Was it effective messaging? Trying to change minds via force doesn't seem like a fruitful approach to the problem. For every person this protest might reach, how many are being pushed in the wrong direction?
 

Roller

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Fascinating:

“Two days before the attack, Iranian officials briefed counterparts from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries on the outlines and timing of their plan for the large-scale strikes on Israel so that those countries could safeguard airspace, the officials said,” according to the WSJ report. “The information was passed along to the U.S., giving Washington and Israel crucial advance warning.”


There is some debate regarding the extent of the information provided by Iran in advance of their attack. However, I believe their intent was to (a) respond to Israel's action in Damascus, (b) put on a show of strength for their people and the international community, including Israel, and (c) test how effectively Israel and other countries would nullify incoming weapons. As others have pointed out, though, there was no guarantee all the drones, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles would be intercepted, so significant injury and damage were always a possibility, and indeed at least one girl was severely wounded.

I don't think it's within Netanyahu's capability or frame of mind to not do something in retaliation, but I also don't think he wants an all-out war with Iran. Yes, the events last weekend distracted from the situation in Gaza, but the Israeli people are fed up with their prime minster and don't desire an escalation that will have serious repercussions on Israeli soil. For that matter, I don't think Iran wants that either, not because they don't want Israel destroyed, but because they fear what the U.S. and other actors would do. So I suspect it'll be a matter of tit-for tat, with each side hoping they don't push the conflict over the edge.
 

Citysnaps

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I just heard a CHP officer/spokesman on the news list the crimes demonstrators were arrested for blocking the Golden Gate Bridge and trapping commuters for hours.

False imprisonment is one of them. There were what sounded like another half dozen charges, but I wasn't paying close attention at the time.
 

Citysnaps

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Update regarding the Golden Gate Bridge protester arrest charges, from ABC News:

"The California Highway Patrol said 38 people were arrested and face a variety of charges including unlawful assembly, refusal to comply with a lawful order, unlawful stop on a bridge, resisting arrest, false imprisonment and conspiracy."

 

AG_PhamD

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One good thing that came out of that episode, is Israeli and US defenses were actually battle tested with live fire (Iranian ballistic and cruise missiles, and drones), rather than relying on simulations and projections. No doubt Israeli and US military and intelligence agencies learned a lot in how Iran operates offensively, and will be even better prepared for future situations.

Big hat tip also goes to the UK, France, and Jordan for helping intercept drones and missiles. Air controllers coordinating all of the above played a big role. Saudi Arabia deserves a hat-tip, hosting western air defense systems, along with surveillance and refueling aircraft.

True, though Israel has extensive years of experience of air defense given countless attacks over the years- many thousands of intercepts with the iron dome system alone, which is just one system of the Israeli multi-layer air defense.

The Houthi shipping attacks has definitely provided extensive real-world practice to our Arliegh Burke destroyers air defense- though their capabilities have long be touted as exceptional.

But we should really be thanking Ukraine for providing real world testing to the a Patriot system. Prior to deployment in Ukraine, Patriot had extremely limited use and its early deployment history was… problematic. Granted some of the problems were the result of user error, but considerable n improvements have been made in the past 30+ years.

The effectiveness of modern air defense is truly remarkable and I believe the success demonstrated over the past couple years must have military planners thinking deeply about the future of warfare.

I think most concerning is the cost differential between interceptors and low cost drones, with many US missiles carrying $1-2m price tags and drones costing as little as $10-30k. The iron dome Tamir missiles only cost $50k.

Many people fail to recognize using a $1m missile is totally worth destroying a cheap drone or missile if it means defending an expensive asset, like a ship, power plant, etc. But it’s clear we need cheaper solitons. Laser defenses will likely help to some extent but have many limitations. Electronic warfare will undoubtedly be important. But we do need interceptors that cost far less to than most in our the current inventory.
 

AG_PhamD

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70+ ballistic missiles with large payloads and 12-minute flight times launched all at once, and your theory is ”eh, it’s just a love tap.”

The reason you launch all those missile simultaneously at just a couple targets is because you intend to overwhelm defenses and cause devastation.

You keep doing you, big guy.

Had Iran wanted to cause extensive damage this is not the attack they would have opted for. Keep in mind balsamic missiles follow predictable paths and they’re attacking the most heavily defended airspace in the world. The intention of this attack was to send a message of strength via political theater, not cause damage Israeli capabilities

99% of projectiles were intercepted and reportedly the 1% that were not hit areas of no strategic importance- possibly suggesting they were intentionally not targeted.

Iran launched the majority weapons from within their boarders providing ample opportunity to intercept and warned Arab neighbors 72hrs prior. The fact this attack was tremendously ineffective leaving Israel to claim their own victory.

Reportedly (per US intel) as many as 50% of Iran’s ballistic missiles failed to launch or failed in flight. I think this deserves a bit of skepticism , but if even remotely true that’s a serious blow to the public perception Iran has fostered for years Re: missile/rocket tech.

I have yet to find a clear timeline of events, but as I can best understand Iran had the drones and missiles to arrive in Israel simultaneously- which would make sense. But that means the drones were deployed hours before launching the ballistic missiles- meaning Israel has hours of notice of an incoming attack.

Furthermore, if Iran actually wanted to overwhelm air defenses, this probably isn’t the way. Iron Dome is one layer of several in Israel’s air defense. It can handle small short range threats like rocket, mortars, drones- it can’t handle giant ballistic rockets. On the opposite end, Arrow intercepts long range ballistic missiles in space or stratosphere- it’s not designed to handle drones or cruise missiles. These Shaheed drones are so slow they are probably mostly being chased down with aircraft and their guns. No sense wasting air defense missiles.

Some media outlets hyped this up to be the start of WWIII, most have changed their tune recognizing this is attack was intended not escalate, though of course such attacks risk deteriorating the situation.

One term for these types of military demonstrations is called kinetic diplomacy. This strategy been practiced by many countries including the U.S.

You don’t give 72hrs notice that you’ll be attacking to neighboring nations and expect that it’ll be a secret. I’m sure Israeli, US, UK intelligence were very much aware of this attack.
 
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Citysnaps

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True, though Israel has extensive years of experience of air defense given countless attacks over the years- many thousands of intercepts with the iron dome system alone, which is just one system of the Israeli multi-layer air defense.

The Houthi shipping attacks has definitely provided extensive real-world practice to our Arliegh Burke destroyers air defense- though their capabilities have long be touted as exceptional.

But we should really be thanking Ukraine for providing real world testing to the a Patriot system. Prior to deployment in Ukraine, Patriot had extremely limited use and its early deployment history was… problematic. Granted some of the problems were the result of user error, but considerable n improvements have been made in the past 30+ years.

The effectiveness of modern air defense is truly remarkable and I believe the success demonstrated over the past couple years must have military planners thinking deeply about the future of warfare.

I think most concerning is the cost differential between interceptors and low cost drones, with many US missiles carrying $1-2m price tags and drones costing as little as $10-30k. The iron dome Tamir missiles only cost $50k.

Many people fail to recognize using a $1m missile is totally worth destroying a cheap drone or missile if it means defending an expensive asset, like a ship, power plant, etc. But it’s clear we need cheaper solitons. Laser defenses will likely help to some extent but have many limitations. Electronic warfare will undoubtedly be important. But we do need interceptors that cost far less to than most in our the current inventory.

True... But I don't think Israel has ever experienced the sheer volume and mixture of weapons (ballistic and cruise missiles, and drones) concentrated and targeting its homeland.

Also a first is having so many countries acting together in unison causing Iran's mission to fail. There was a hell of a lot of planning and coordination to make that a success. No doubt in my mind US/UK/French space assets were involved collecting intelligence/information about how Iran was planning the attack and when it would occur, and also tipping off ballistic missile launches real time the moment they left the ground so they could be dealt with.

From a distance, and from what's being reported, all of that came together remarkably well. There may have been some rough edges here and there, but those are lessons learned for the next time something similar occurs.
 

Roller

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Had Iran wanted to cause extensive damage this is not the attack they would have opted for. Keep in mind balsamic missiles follow predictable paths and they’re attacking the most heavily defended airspace in the world. The intention of this attack was to send a message of strength via political theater, not cause damage Israeli capabilities
That’s just word salad.
 

Cmaier

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That’s just word salad.
Yep. I also love the complete lack of science. ”balsamic” missiles must be easy to shoot down because they follow “predictable paths,” am I right? That’s why we use IC*B*M’s, right? To make them easy to shoot down.

I mean, how hard can it be to shoot down a missile flying at Mach 25 coming straight down from 800 miles up?

Oh. Turns out it‘s REALLY hard, and that’s why it’s far easier to hit them during their *ascent.* Which would occur in, lemme see here… oh. In Iran.

Hmmm…
 

AG_PhamD

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True... But I don't think Israel has ever experienced the sheer volume and mixture of weapons (ballistic and cruise missiles, and drones) concentrated and targeting its homeland.

Also a first is having so many countries acting together in unison causing Iran's mission to fail. There was a hell of a lot of planning and coordination to make that a success. No doubt in my mind US/UK/French space assets were involved collecting intelligence/information about how Iran was planning the attack and when it would occur, and also tipping off ballistic missile launches real time the moment they left the ground so they could be dealt with.

From a distance, and from what's being reported, all of that came together remarkably well. There may have been some rough edges here and there, but those are lessons learned for the next time something similar occurs.

No, probably not 300 sophisticated airborne threats in a a single barrage. Israel has dealt with large numbers of incoming projectiles from Hamas, certainly in recent times, but usually these are far more rudimentary weapons with less destructive power like small unguided rockets, mortars, etc. Part of the Hamas strategy however is to combine these cheap unsophisticated weapons with more advanced and destructive weapons with the hope of saturating Israel’s defense.

Allegedly on the Oct 7, Hamas fired 2000 projectiles alone into Israel and many thousands more in the weeks and months to come. It’s worth noting, a lot of these projectiles fail (10-20% land in Gaza per humans right a watch) and some are not intercepted since most lack guidance and pose no risk to anything of value. Some of these weapons have very limited destructive power, but Hamas’ capabilities have been progressively improving.

This site tallies attacks against Israel which gives you some idea of what they’re dealing with. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-rocket-and-mortar-attacks-against-israel

This is I believe this technically the biggest drone attack in history. But this is exactly the kind of thing the Israeli military plans for, certainly its allies. The successful defense definitely speaks highly of international cooperation, practice, and highlights the interoperability of military systems- perhaps one of the most significant and under recognized technologies the US has focused extensively on developing along with it’s partners. Another impressive advancement is the deconfliction among friendly aircraft. Friendly fire among aircraft has been an issue for most of history- even in relatively recent history. This is a problem Russia has had a lot of problems with in Ukraine.

I will retiterate however Iran essentially broadcast a 72hr warning. There is some speculation without this notice, the US would not have had assets in ideally positioned so the question is without notice would the same result have occurred?

It’s also worth pointing out these drones launched from Iran had to fly 6-7 hours. These things are dreadfully slow, low altitude, loud, not stealthy- and Ukraine was even managing to take them out with small arms fire. They were seen coming far far far away and I’m not sure any actually made into Israeli territory.

The problem is apparently the total close of taking out all these drones and missiles was something like $1.3B. That’s a lot of money.

In a real war you’d have to wonder how long such defenses would realistically last. And so long as the enemy can keep flying easily and cheaply Mass manufactured weapons, eventually they will exhaust the defenses. Alternatively, the enemy launches so many missiles at once against a target eventually some will get get through- (this is actually a huge concern for aircraft carriers even with their extensive defenses distributed across the strike group ships and aircraft. Adversaries obviously have a strong interest in developing weapons and tactics specifically to take out carriers which would be a horrendous loss. The Navy seems to be pushing to distribute resources across a greater number of smaller ships which makes a lot of sense (granted our fleet numbers and production capabilities are a disaster).

The future of war is very interesting-
And changing faster than we can keep up with. I think the seemingly overnight advancement of drones, highly reliable air defense systems, advanced targeting using AI, stealth + beyond visual range targeting, satellite tracking of naval ships, cyber attacks, etc totally changes the face of war. In Ukraine man portable anti-tank weapons (ie Javelin) have made tanks far less safe and portable surface-to-air (ie Stingers) put helicopters at tremendous risk and pose enough of a danger to at least deny ground attack jets. And given how complex most of our weapons are, can’t imagine we’ll have WWII-like production in a WWIII scenario, ie building 50k aircraft per year in the US.
 

AG_PhamD

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That’s just word salad.

I’m sorry, for the typo but I appreciate the pun. iOS autocorrect makes me want to go ballistic.

Can we agree ballistic missiles not follow ballistic trajectories? Ballistic missiles are easily detected and have a predictable flight path. The challenge is that they can reach hypersonic speeds during parts their flight, but the technology to intercept these exists and has become quite reliable. Ukraine seems to have a lot success with Patriot against ballistic missiles (and even Russia’s “hypersonic” Kinzhal- mostly just an old ballistic missile modified to be air launched)

Compare that to cruise missiles that can fly at very high speeds just above the terrain, allowing them to evade radar. Their ability maneuver in any direction allows their flight paths to be unpredictable so even if detected, you’re not necessarily going to know what their target is…. And depending on their capabilities, might even change targets.

Drones obviously have the ability to fly low and maneuver, but are very slow and usually don’t have the payload of missiles.

I actually wonder how many drones were shot down kinetically and if any were taken out with electronic warfare or directed energy. Israel allegedly is testing the “iron beam” laser air defense. I wouldn’t be surprised drones that get close enough to a US destroyer could be microwaved out of the sky with their radar. Such radar can literally kill a person if they get too close.

In the pasty the Navy has taken our drones using “electronic warfare”. Of course, they never elaborate on what they used specifically. If the drone has is remotely piloted the obvious tactic would to jam the control signal / send erroneous commands. I believe the Shaheed drones is pre-programmed with gps and inertial navigation. EW seems a lot more tricky here. You can jam ir spoof GPS, but it probably detects this and rely on INS.
 

AG_PhamD

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Yeah, let's ban protest from public space to some noman's land or desert so nobody gets confronted or even offended by a reality different from their own. ;)

This type of behavior is counterproductive to whatever cause activists are advocating. This doesn’t convince anyone to support their stance, if anything it makes people angry and not want to associate with you. What does blocking traffic actually accomplish infurtning your goals. Not to mention blocking traffic blocks emergency traffic, but can also have dire consequences (ie the guy that had to go back to jail if he was late to his court hearing or probation… something like that). Or what about the kid who had waited 3 months to see a specialist for a medical issue, now missing their appointment.

I also think this should be considered illegal detainment since you’re basically trapping people with no way to leave.


Some people are confused about "freedom" and think it means you have the right to drive the golden Bridge at any given time. :sleep:

back to the topic:
no, but i think that it's a part of living in a open, democratic society that your daily routine can get once in a while interrupted by people protesting. let's be honest, how often are you getting stopped by some street protest every year? i cannot agree to this degree of outrage, only because some streets or bridges are temporarily blocked .

I’m sorry, what are you even talking about? If you are legally able to drive a vehicle, you have the right to travel on a public road unless for whatever reason it is shut down.

In most places it is indeed illegal to block traffic by sitting or standing in the road, even if it’s a protest. Do believe people have the fundamental right to the freedom of travel? The freedom to travel on public highways is recognized as a right in America. If you are blocking people’s ability to travel in your protest stunt, you are infringing on others rights.

Explain to me why you have the right to block other people’s freedom of travel just because you want to protest.

And what if many if not the majorly of the people being inconvenienced actually agree, at least on some level, with the protest’s message?

I encourage you to think about the consequences people may suffer because you feel your beliefs are so important that…
1) Blocking emergency vehicles is acceptable. If a person dies because you caused a traffic jam, preventing or significantly affecting the ambiance’s ability to reach the person or hospital, should you be responsible?
2) If your house was burning down and a group was protesting something you’re absolutely opposed to, how would like it if the fire truck was stuck in traffic
3) What about the people on a schedule that if they miss their appointment, might lose their job, custody of child, freedom (ie those on probation).

ALSO- If a car accident occurs because you’re illegally sitting in the middle of the road ie a car swerves into a guardrail or another car, you could be held liable. Though i sense many people have the time to do this probably have nothing to sue for.

The amount of narcissism required for people to not even consider the impact of their behavior on others is revolting. And this type of activism does not persuade people. It only makes people angry and to want nothing to do with you- even of they might agree in principle. Disrupting people’s daily lives is totally counterproductive. It’s not likely your evening targeting the protest at those who oppose your beliefs.

People who feel strongly about things should exercise their right to protest. But that does not mean there are not limitations in place on protesting. But protesters also need to ask themselves if how they present themselves is helping the cause or harming it.

There’s productive activism and nonproductive activism. This specifically is never going to be productive.

And no offense, whatever message you think is so important that entitles you to inhibit people’s autonomy to go about their life, sorry it’s not. If protestors don’t respect others, why should anyone give you the respect to listen to your message. If you want to promote your cause and inspire others to take up your cause, find a healthy way of doing it that fosters positivity and attraction.

And if you do block traffic don’t be the environments protesting oil only to cause a traffic jam for miles of idling cars. It doesn’t get much more counterproductive.

I’m sure you wouldn’t be happy if it was the KKK blocking the highway promoting the neo Nazi party when you needed to get work.
 
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Citysnaps

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A good analysis piece by the NYT regarding Iran's attack on Israel:

I agree with John Kirby regarding Iran's intent:

"Mr. Kirby disputed speculation that Iran did not really intend to do damage because it telegraphed its coming attack for more than a week, and he denied reports that Tehran had even passed along messages through intermediaries giving details about time and targets. He scoffed at the suggestion that more than 300 missiles and drones amounted to just a face-saving exercise.

“Maybe they want to make it appear like this was some sort of small pinprick of an attack that they never meant to succeed,” he said. “You can’t throw that much metal in the air, which they did, in the time frame in which they did it, and convince anybody realistically that you weren’t trying to cause casualties and that you weren’t trying to cause damage. They absolutely were.” "

 

Cmaier

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A good analysis piece by the NYT regarding Iran's attack on Israel:

I agree with John Kirby regarding Iran's intent:

"Mr. Kirby disputed speculation that Iran did not really intend to do damage because it telegraphed its coming attack for more than a week, and he denied reports that Tehran had even passed along messages through intermediaries giving details about time and targets. He scoffed at the suggestion that more than 300 missiles and drones amounted to just a face-saving exercise.

“Maybe they want to make it appear like this was some sort of small pinprick of an attack that they never meant to succeed,” he said. “You can’t throw that much metal in the air, which they did, in the time frame in which they did it, and convince anybody realistically that you weren’t trying to cause casualties and that you weren’t trying to cause damage. They absolutely were.” "


Yeah, but according to a pharmacist who has access to google, Iran intended that all of these missiles be intercepted. I don’t know who to believe.
 

Citysnaps

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Yeah, but according to a pharmacist who has access to google, Iran intended that all of these missiles be intercepted. I don’t know who to believe.

What sealed the deal for me was Iran's coordination of the attack.

Drones were launched hours ahead of the ballistic and cruise missiles, so that the majority of the weapons would (ideally) hit Israel at the same time, causing confusion and overwhelming their defenses. And probably causing a lot of damage and casualties.

That so many countries came together supporting Israel (including Saudi Arabia and Jordan) snuffing out the attack and embarrassing Iran puts a big smile on my face. Having had a bad/frightening experience in Iran a few decades ago probably has something to do with that.
 

Cmaier

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What sealed the deal for me was Iran's coordination of the attack.

Drones were launched hours ahead of the ballistic and cruise missiles, so that the majority of the weapons would (ideally) hit Israel at the same time, causing confusion and overwhelming their defenses. And probably causing a lot of damage and casualties.

That so many countries came together supporting Israel (including Saudi Arabia and Jordan) snuffing out the attack and embarrassing Iran puts a big smile on my face. Having had a bad/frightening experience in Iran a few decades ago probably has something to do with that.

When Iraq fired 38 scuds, a few at a time, at Israel in ‘91, it caused a bunch of damage, a couple of deaths, and hundreds of injuries. Anyone who believes that Iran thought nobody would be hurt and nothing would be damaged by launching 300 weapons at Israel, designed to arrive all at once, where many of them are much more powerful than scuds, is high.
 
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