I sympathize with traditional Republicans

Chew Toy McCoy

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Not because I agree with them, although I do think we need a balance and I can understand their logic even if I think it’s flawed, but because their party has been completely hijacked by nutters. When debating with somebody on the left it’s hard for the left side to not see the wall of nutters. The media almost exclusively gives airtime to the right’s nutters while the left seems to get more balance between their sane members and their nutters.

To make things worse I believe the right’s politicians are legitimately scared of their nutters and then have to be careful about what they say and how so as to not piss them off. Establishment Pelosi has been quite vocal about her distain for the far left. I don’t think I’ve seen the equivalent from top ranking Republicans towards their fringe, but I could be wrong. Liz Cheney might be a good example, but look what her party did to her as a result. Can’t really escape the message that sent out.

But I think it’s also important more traditional Republicans acknowledge their party has been hijacked. You can’t walk into a restaurant on fire and wonder why nobody there wants to talk to you about the menu.
 

SuperMatt

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Not because I agree with them, although I do think we need a balance and I can understand their logic even if I think it’s flawed, but because their party has been completely hijacked by nutters. When debating with somebody on the left it’s hard for the left side to not see the wall of nutters. The media almost exclusively gives airtime to the right’s nutters while the left seems to get more balance between their sane members and their nutters.

To make things worse I believe the right’s politicians are legitimately scared of their nutters and then have to be careful about what they say and how so as to not piss them off. Establishment Pelosi has been quite vocal about her distain for the far left. I don’t think I’ve seen the equivalent from top ranking Republicans towards their fringe, but I could be wrong. Liz Cheney might be a good example, but look what her party did to her as a result. Can’t really escape the message that sent out.

But I think it’s also important more traditional Republicans acknowledge their party has been hijacked. You can’t walk into a restaurant on fire and wonder why nobody there wants to talk to you about the menu.
When John Boehner kowtowed to the Tea Party, it was over for the ‘old’ GOP.
 

DT

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It has become a three party system: Democrats, Republicans and Fucknuts. The latter shouldn't even claim any Republican political baseline, they've created a completely new entity.
 

Eric

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Not because I agree with them, although I do think we need a balance and I can understand their logic even if I think it’s flawed, but because their party has been completely hijacked by nutters. When debating with somebody on the left it’s hard for the left side to not see the wall of nutters. The media almost exclusively gives airtime to the right’s nutters while the left seems to get more balance between their sane members and their nutters.

To make things worse I believe the right’s politicians are legitimately scared of their nutters and then have to be careful about what they say and how so as to not piss them off. Establishment Pelosi has been quite vocal about her distain for the far left. I don’t think I’ve seen the equivalent from top ranking Republicans towards their fringe, but I could be wrong. Liz Cheney might be a good example, but look what her party did to her as a result. Can’t really escape the message that sent out.

But I think it’s also important more traditional Republicans acknowledge their party has been hijacked. You can’t walk into a restaurant on fire and wonder why nobody there wants to talk to you about the menu.
Romney is another good example here, I disagree with a lot of his ideals but he's a good man and has always stuck to his beliefs. His marching with BLM made a huge difference with me and he took a lot of flack from his party, nothing but respect and he's come a long way since 2012.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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It has become a three party system: Democrats, Republicans and Fucknuts. The latter shouldn't even claim any Republican political baseline, they've created a completely new entity.

But I have to wonder if sane Republicans either embrace or ignore their nutters simply because it adds to their overall numbers, voting-wise useful idiots.

I also think the fuckwits hitched their wagon to the Republicans because that's what their leader did.
 

SuperMatt

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It has become a three party system: Democrats, Republicans and Fucknuts. The latter shouldn't even claim any Republican political baseline, they've created a completely new entity.
The Fucknuts have taken over the GOP. The “reasonable” Republicans are not allowed in party leadership anymore. One must sign their firstborn over to Trump to be a Republican today. So, it’s Democrats, Republicans, and non-crazy conservatives as the 3.
 
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DT

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So, it’s Democrats, Republicans, and non-crazy conservatives as the 3.

Oh yeah, I was just trying, er, I guess hoping, and labeling the non-crazy conservatives as "Republicans". You're right though, the GOP/Repubs (by name) == Crazy People
 

lizkat

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The Fucknuts have taken over the GOP. The “reasonable” Republicans are not allowed in party leadership anymore. One must sign their firstborn over to Trump to be a Republican today. So, it’s Democrats, Republicans, and non-crazy conservatives as the 3.

The RNC and compliant state committee chairs are treading water to see what happens with Trump. They'd drop him like a hot potato if the wackos started sounding like it was time to move on. So far The Don and his most vocal die-hard followers are in a mutually reinforcing feedback loop and so still hold the GOP leadership in thrall. McConnell and to some extent even Kevin McCarthy have seemed to want to exit that sometimes, but that winter meeting of the RNC (during the contesting of the 2020 election) sure sticks in their minds... not only did they reconfirm that Trump remains the party's standard bearer, they re-elected McDaniel as RNC chair and picked a pro-Trump guy as deputy chair.

You can do a lot of things in politics but to speak out against the national committee's choices is not one of them, unless you're independently wealthy or have a truckload of wealthy donors in tow... or maybe if you're among the party's traditionally more moderate elders, e.g. Romney or a traditional conservative like Liz Cheney. Even they and like-minded conservatives don't quite see their way to a formal third party yet.

It doesn't help that the media seem cowed by the pro-Trump take on what a Republican is about. The party said in 2020 convention that it's about Trump, period. Platform was nonexistent. So the media bought that and they never fail to put any off-Trump-brand Republican's remarks or policy proposals in that context. Beltway media give a nod to the most well known elected officials from the GOP, like McConnell, but even there they weigh every remark he makes in the context of how that goes with or against the grain of The Don's take on things.

To think there were once 17 Republicans vying for the 2016 nomination from that party, wow. There were some silly entrants, sure, but plenty from which right-leaning voters could have made a sane choice. Now the GOP has guys like DeSantis thinking to throw hat in the ring. He makes some candidates from the 2016 array look like conservative statesmen of the sort we haven't seen since the last of the real statesmen were primaried out in the heyday of the Tea Party. I'm not convinced that people like Nikki Haley or Elise Stefanik are ready to step in either.

So far you can't really blame Rs who'd like to run as other than pro-Trump for hanging back. They fear he has the power to put the kibosh on their prospects with a single statement from Mar a Lago. They must be tired of letting him live rent-free in their heads all this time, no?
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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It should probably be noted that the establishment Republicans don’t want to do anything that is popular or appropriate for this point in history. So in that regard, the Trump clown show is probably a welcome distraction.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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To think there were once 17 Republicans vying for the 2016 nomination from that party, wow. There were some silly entrants, sure, but plenty from which right-leaning voters could have made a sane choice.

This certainly brought a specific demographic of right-wing voter to the surface, an element that has now infested the party.

As far as a majority of Republican politicians, they certainly aren’t offering anything that’s an attractive and popular alternative to Trump or the Democrats. If anything they are offering a return to a system that made Trump look like a better alternative to many voters and don’t think they forgot about that. “Not Trump” is almost entirely the luxury of the Democrats.

IMO it’s just a really bad time in history to have unwavering loyalty to Republican values and it appears their only willing to adapt by turning hard right. As the most recent census shows the country is already a lot less white. Like with climate change, you can’t prevent something from happening that is already here. Race baiting in defense of white people as victims isn’t a good national winning strategy. To this end, there are probably many conservatives who also don’t agree with the race baiting focus or strategy but that’s not what their Trump nutter infested media is telling us.
 

lizkat

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This certainly brought a specific demographic of right-wing voter to the surface, an element that has now infested the party.

As far as a majority of Republican politicians, they certainly aren’t offering anything that’s an attractive and popular alternative to Trump or the Democrats. If anything they are offering a return to a system that made Trump look like a better alternative to many voters and don’t think they forgot about that. “Not Trump” is almost entirely the luxury of the Democrats.

IMO it’s just a really bad time in history to have unwavering loyalty to Republican values and it appears their only willing to adapt by turning hard right. As the most recent census shows the country is already a lot less white. Like with climate change, you can’t prevent something from happening that is already here. Race baiting in defense of white people as victims isn’t a good national winning strategy. To this end, there are probably many conservatives who also don’t agree with the race baiting focus or strategy but that’s not what their Trump nutter infested media is telling us.

Plenty of Black voters have pretty conservative social values but the Republican Party doesn't attract their vote very efficiently -- thanks in large part to the some of the throwbacks in that party.... the ones who are both so vocal and so offensive, and viewed as such by plenty other voters across both party and racial lines. Yet the GOP tolerates them, go figure. Just another sign the Rs are giving up on votes as a way to stay in power, and another reason for their state-level push to create more avenues for overriding election results they may not care for. Would be easier and more American to make a bigger tent, but they're not doing that.

A surprise though is that short of some transgender issues, the Rs are largely leaving behind their quarrel with some of the past decade's gay rights advancement. Sure there are still the loud dissenters among right-leaning values groups, but in general there seems more acceptance of gay marriage now in the USA even across party lines. It may be the the one potential uptick for the GOP in their potential voter rolls, as a result of their having thrown a policy-free Trump-revering 2020 convention, i.e. no one up there running keynote speeches that might otherwise have had a few lines about the sanctity of straight-deco wedding cakes.

Maybe they realized the Log Cabin Republicans include folks with pretty deep pockets and an affinity for tax cuts. On the other hand not all LCRs have been Trump supporters for assorted reasons, and some of that disdain has been reciprocated by some in the GOP who regard the Log Cabin group as not conservative enough fiscally. So... maybe the net effect of a no-platform 2020 GOP convention was nil after all.

They could have used a bump back then in interest from non-Trump pro-conservative policy voters. But they didn't and don't have any serious policies now except "Trump's our guy and don't make us get vaccinated or wear masks."
 
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