Roe vs. Wade overturned

Chew Toy McCoy

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SuperMatt said:
Is there a limit to the insanity of the “pro-life” laws in the wake of overturning Roe V Wade?

www.npr.org

Pregnant? Georgia says that fetus counts as a dependent on your taxes

A person at least six weeks pregnant on or after July 20 through Dec. 31, 2022, can submit the fetus as a dependent on their state tax returns starting next year.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

Maybe not…
Click to expand...

Sounds like a bribe for the state government to efficiently track if a woman has ever been pregnant. And in the following year if she doesn't claim a dependent I'm sure they won't investigate, nope.
 
SuperMatt

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It looks like the Kansas ballot measure to change the constitution and allow the legislature to ban abortions is going to fail, by a 2-to-1 margin.

I have 2 thoughts about this.

First, banning abortion is very unpopular, even with some Republicans apparently. The “no” vote on the constitutional amendment got 20 points more support than Biden in 2020.

Second, this is in a state with a solid Republican legislature, even though it looks like a majority of people in the state aren’t voting Republican. Yet another example of how gerrymandering perverts democracy.
 
Alli

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GermanSuplex

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I pray this is a sign of the midterms. Although they've already laid the groundwork to just claim "fraud" if the elections don't go to their likings.

Dems will either lose the house (and possibly senate) and republicans will celebrate, or they'll keep control of one or both and republicans will just say its more proof of voter fraud.

We need one of these nut jobs to win a governor seat and end up screwing their own constituents, and then they need to have a hard time getting rid of said governor after they've successfully rigged the vote. I hate to say that, but business as usual won't work with these nut jobs. They will not change their mind until they fall victim to their own brand of fucked up politics. Maybe arresting a wealthy conservative woman when she's found to have gotten an abortion against her state's laws.

Nevertheless, I'm glad the constitutional amendment change failed in Kansas. That's a damn good sign from a very religious, red state. And I hope women, moderates, independents and liberals send a clear message to pro-life crusaders this year, and hand the republicans some defeats in the process.
 
SuperMatt

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GermanSuplex said:
I pray this is a sign of the midterms. Although they've already laid the groundwork to just claim "fraud" if the elections don't go to their likings.

Dems will either lose the house (and possibly senate) and republicans will celebrate, or they'll keep control of one or both and republicans will just say its more proof of voter fraud.

We need one of these nut jobs to win a governor seat and end up screwing their own constituents, and then they need to have a hard time getting rid of said governor after they've successfully rigged the vote. I hate to say that, but business as usual won't work with these nut jobs. They will not change their mind until they fall victim to their own brand of fucked up politics. Maybe arresting a wealthy conservative woman when she's found to have gotten an abortion against her state's laws.

Nevertheless, I'm glad the constitutional amendment change failed in Kansas. That's a damn good sign from a very religious, red state. And I hope women, moderates, independents and liberals send a clear message to pro-life crusaders this year, and hand the republicans some defeats in the process.
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I was reading the coverage from 538, and I was a bit surprised that they didn’t see the Kansas vote coming. They thought it would go for the anti-abortion amendment. This is despite polls showing what people think about abortion nationwide. It makes me wonder if their models that show a high likelihood of Republicans re-taking the house are way off. This vote wasn’t close. Women don’t want their rights taken away, regardless of party. When you factor in the insane candidates being put forward byes the GOP, i wouldn‘t be surprised if all the pundits are wrong and the Democrats hold the house and the Senate despite the current global economic trouble.
 
Chew Toy McCoy

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In summary…you don’t get to embark on a decades’ long crusade to strip away rights and then claim you are champions of democracy when the people vote against those actions.

On top of that there are still many states where decisions are just being made by politicians. If you are really champions of democracy then you would insist similar votes be made in every state and no changes will be made before that vote.
 
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Eric

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Scepticalscribe said:
For once, the "angry" emoji is insufficient to express my emotions.

Do you have an emoji to express pure rage, or undiluted, incandescent, fury?
Click to expand...
Best I can do here...
02dc-impeachbriefing-videoSixteenByNine3000.jpeg340px-Gluehlampe_01_KMJ.png

;)
 
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Scepticalscribe

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Eric said:
Best I can do here...
View attachment 16587View attachment 16588

;)
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Thanks, but no thanks.

I'll pass on this.

However, the thread does suggest that there will be a day of reckoning for social media platforms.

Such actions will (inevitably) raise questions on subjects such as one's rights to privacy and indeed, issues of freedom of expression, as well as, wider questions of social and political responsibility for what appears on these platforms, for, the old days of "net neutrality" will no longer wash in the current political climate.
 
GermanSuplex

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Republicans get abortions too. I think a lot of conservatives have this dumb idea that anyone getting an abortion must be a pro-choice liberal. They don’t consider many people may be against abortion in theory but would get one in a hot second if they felt it was necessary for them, regardless of any political ideology or lack of, and there are many pro-choice liberals who would never consider abortion for themselves except as a last resort.

If a state like Kansas voted down an amendment to remove abortion rights, you can bet your ass the polling numbers we’ve seen across the nation are pretty accurate. This is a losing stance for conservatives.

Between this, Trump’s refusal to go away and the insane rhetoric coming from the right in the wake of investigation activity surrounding their cult leader (not to mention Biden’s string of legislative success in his 20 months in office), I feel a lot better about democrat chances in November.
 
D

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Interesting article about why the abortion ban in Ireland failed:

www.nybooks.com

The Irish Lesson | Fintan O’Toole

In 1973, soon after the US Supreme Court established a right to abortion in Roe v. Wade, Charles E. Rice concluded that “the essential remedy to the
www.nybooks.com www.nybooks.com

In 1983, Ireland passed a Constitutional amendment to ban abortion, though it was already banned according to 19th century laws that had never been overturned. O'Toole cites three major reasons the ban failed:

1. The ban had an exception to save the life of the mother, thus losing its absolutism that made it powerful in the first place.
2. The ban did not stop women from seeking abortions in England. It allowed women to travel abroad for an abortion, thus essentially carving out another exception.
3. Women died because doctors feared treating them for dangerous complications lest they be accused of performing an abortion and these stories disgusted and horrified the public.

In other words, the ban failed over time as these issues accumulated. I wonder if a similar thing will happen here. In either case, the pro-life movement knows that the next step is a nationwide ban to shield against issue #2.
 
Chew Toy McCoy

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DL;DW. Eli Lilly headquartered in Indian for almost 150 years put out a statement saying they are looking to expand or move elsewhere due to the abortion restrictions in the state potentially keeping talent from moving there. So it begins.
 
lizkat

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TBL said:
Interesting article about why the abortion ban in Ireland failed:

www.nybooks.com

The Irish Lesson | Fintan O’Toole

In 1973, soon after the US Supreme Court established a right to abortion in Roe v. Wade, Charles E. Rice concluded that “the essential remedy to the
www.nybooks.com www.nybooks.com

In 1983, Ireland passed a Constitutional amendment to ban abortion, though it was already banned according to 19th century laws that had never been overturned. O'Toole cites three major reasons the ban failed:

1. The ban had an exception to save the life of the mother, thus losing its absolutism that made it powerful in the first place.
2. The ban did not stop women from seeking abortions in England. It allowed women to travel abroad for an abortion, thus essentially carving out another exception.
3. Women died because doctors feared treating them for dangerous complications lest they be accused of performing an abortion and these stories disgusted and horrified the public.

In other words, the ban failed over time as these issues accumulated. I wonder if a similar thing will happen here. In either case, the pro-life movement knows that the next step is a nationwide ban to shield against issue #2.
Click to expand...

They're behind the eight ball on a nationwide ban. The pendulum has swung too far the other way, and in no little part because of the excessive behavior of anti-choice activists over the years. We've already seen rise in maternal mortality rates, for instance, in states where the leading edge of state-level laws restricting abortion access occurred years ago. Physicians will point to that and say what do you think will happen when we can't even surgically assist a woman who miscarried naturally with medical complications? They'll leave states like Indiana and Ohio and Texas in droves. If you can't find an abortion provider locally, that's one thing. If you can't find a obstetrician or an ER doctor, well... maybe you look work elsewhere, same as your doctor will be doing.
 
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