Titanic Sight Seeing Sub...

[Huntn]

I've decided I don't want to go on a Titanic Sight Seeing sub. If condolences are in order I'll offer them. Listened to a sub expert who said "the sub is an experimental vehicle, not even made out of steel, but fiberglass. I'd never go on it." The report on NPR said that you walk into this adventure with eyes wide open, taking your life in your hands, death is mentioned 3 times on the first page of the disclaimer, in a laundry list of ways you can die. A comparison was made with the space shuttle where it goes from 1 atmosphere to 0 atmospheres, this sub goes from 1 to 400. I'll fess up, never ever did I consider this as an option for fun.

Missing Titanic tourist sub: Everything we know so far, from who's on board to when it disappeared

The Titan submersible went missing less than two hours after setting out for an eight-day tourist expedition to the Titanic wreck near Newfoundland.

www.insider.com

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Sometimes bad things happen even to those who live in the alternative universe most of us can't afford.

 

[Eric]

I've decided I don't want to go on a Titanic Sight Seeing sub. If condolences are in order I'll offer them. Listened to a sub expert who said "the sub is an experimental vehicle, not even made out of steel, but fiberglass. I'd never go on it." The report on NPR said that you walk into this adventure with eyes wide open, taking your life in your hands, death is mentioned 3 times on the first page of the disclaimer, in a laundry list of ways you can die. A comparison was made with the space shuttle where it goes from 1 atmosphere to 0 atmospheres, this sub goes from 1 to 400. I'll fess up, never ever did I consider this as an option for fun.

Missing Titanic tourist sub: Everything we know so far, from who's on board to when it disappeared

The Titan submersible went missing less than two hours after setting out for an eight-day tourist expedition to the Titanic wreck near Newfoundland.

www.insider.com

Yeah this thing sounds like a death trap waiting to happen, I feel bad for everyone trapped down there. Even if they were to make it to the surface there's no way to open it from the inside and your have no control over it, you have to wonder how such a thing was ever sanctioned.

 

[Yoused]

you have to wonder how such a thing was ever sanctioned

It was not. There is no one qualified to certify a device such as this. Anyone who really wants to do it has to get writer's cramp from signing twelve zillion waivers. Oh, and the dive company CEO is always onboard.

 

[Cmaier]

It was not. There is no one qualified to certify a device such as this. Anyone who really wants to do it has to get writer's cramp from signing twelve zillion waivers. Oh, and the dive company CEO is always onboard.

If i‘m paying $250k to ride in a death trap, you better believe I demand that the guy who built the thing is along for the ride.

 

[Yoused]

A whistleblower raised safety concerns about OceanGate’s submersible in 2018. Then he was fired. | TechCrunch

The director of marine operations at OceanGate was fired after raising concerns about its first-of-a-kind carbon fiber hull.

techcrunch.com

The director of marine operations at OceanGate … was fired after raising concerns about its first-of-a-kind carbon fiber hull and other systems before its maiden voyage, according to a filing in a 2018 lawsuit first reported by Insider and New Republic.​

 

[AG_PhamD]

It was not. There is no one qualified to certify a device such as this. Anyone who really wants to do it has to get writer's cramp from signing twelve zillion waivers. Oh, and the dive company CEO is always onboard.

I believe there are USCG certified submersibles… probably nothing close to the depths this thing was capable of diving though. USCG certifications, even on surface boats/ships, historically has been incredibly flawed and noted as prominent factors many tragedies- especially things like passenger unsafe modifications, accurate stability calculations, passenger capacity, etc. That’s not to disparage the coast guard from the many good things they have achieved and continue to advance in terms of safety. There’s so few vehicles that go to these depths, especially for tourism, it does seem like something that would be hard to certify and outside of the USCG wheelhouse, so to speak. I would not be surprised if this changes as a result of this.

It heard on the news that typically this submarine would be scheduled for 5 days at the wreck and every day they would attempt a dive because the submersible was so unreliable 4/5 attempts would fail. I don’t know much about such vehicles, but that doesn’t sound very reliable. The environment these machines must endure is nothing short of extreme, but an 80% failure rate seems unacceptably low, especially for a commercial operation giving site-seeing tours.

I think it is important to remember that the “customers” were likely very aware of the risks involved and seemed to be adventurous people. Deep sea diving is incredibly dangerous. 13,000ft is well below what any (normal) military submarine can handle. A Virginia class submarine test depths (classified info) estimated to be between 1300-2000ft. Even if it’s double that, it’s far from Titanic’s depths. If they are dead, at least they died on an adventure that brought them joy in life. That can’t be said for most people.

I think best case scenario they lost power- but I have to imagine there would be backups for critical communication devices which I have to imagine at a minimum would include some type of sonar beacon. If they are able to stay warm, then they have a chance.

I highly doubt they are floating on the surface somewhere- I’d think they’d be detected by now and surely would have an EPIRB and possibly AIS to indicate their location. I’d think they’d have some ability to deploy dye or have flashing lights to make themselves highly visible to even the naked eye.

More likely, I suspect they suffered some type of hull breach, probably a severe one and have unfortunately died. I’m sure they will be found eventually, just not alive.

 

[Citysnaps]

The US Navy is very good at recovering and servicing "items" on the ocean floor. Whether proper resources can be mustered up quickly enough (including the ability to surface the sight seeing sub) is another matter. Have a feeling they're at least in motion. But sadly, there's so little time remaining, And that's assuming there wasn't a catastrophic failure (which seems very possible).

 

[fooferdoggie]

Yeah this thing sounds like a death trap waiting to happen, I feel bad for everyone trapped down there. Even if they were to make it to the surface there's no way to open it from the inside and your have no control over it, you have to wonder how such a thing was ever sanctioned.

rich people toys is why.

 

[Yoused]

banging noises

usually means ghosts

 

[Eric]

 

[KingOfPain]

I stumbled accross a video on Youtube yesterday (sorry, no link and I don't really remember the title), which showed the inside of the sub.

A guy explained that the sub only has a single button and that it is steered with a Logitech wireless controller originally designed for the Playstation.
My thought was: And what do you do when the batteries die or Bluetooth fails? Then I stopped the video...

EDIT: Ars Technica also has a story on this:

Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

While rescuers fear for crew, Logitech F710 PC gamepad sells out within minutes.

arstechnica.com

 

[Huntn]

I believe there are USCG certified submersibles… probably nothing close to the depths this thing was capable of diving though. USCG certifications, even on surface boats/ships, historically has been incredibly flawed and noted as prominent factors many tragedies- especially things like passenger unsafe modifications, accurate stability calculations, passenger capacity, etc. That’s not to disparage the coast guard from the many good things they have achieved and continue to advance in terms of safety. There’s so few vehicles that go to these depths, especially for tourism, it does seem like something that would be hard to certify and outside of the USCG wheelhouse, so to speak. I would not be surprised if this changes as a result of this.

It heard on the news that typically this submarine would be scheduled for 5 days at the wreck and every day they would attempt a dive because the submersible was so unreliable 4/5 attempts would fail. I don’t know much about such vehicles, but that doesn’t sound very reliable. The environment these machines must endure is nothing short of extreme, but an 80% failure rate seems unacceptably low, especially for a commercial operation giving site-seeing tours.

I think it is important to remember that the “customers” were likely very aware of the risks involved and seemed to be adventurous people. Deep sea diving is incredibly dangerous. 13,000ft is well below what any (normal) military submarine can handle. A Virginia class submarine test depths (classified info) estimated to be between 1300-2000ft. Even if it’s double that, it’s far from Titanic’s depths. If they are dead, at least they died on an adventure that brought them joy in life. That can’t be said for most people.

I think best case scenario they lost power- but I have to imagine there would be backups for critical communication devices which I have to imagine at a minimum would include some type of sonar beacon. If they are able to stay warm, then they have a chance.

I highly doubt they are floating on the surface somewhere- I’d think they’d be detected by now and surely would have an EPIRB and possibly AIS to indicate their location. I’d think they’d have some ability to deploy dye or have flashing lights to make themselves highly visible to even the naked eye.

More likely, I suspect they suffered some type of hull breach, probably a severe one and have unfortunately died. I’m sure they will be found eventually, just not alive.

I’m no sub expert, but I’d ask to compare this sub with the type sub James Cameron took down to view the Titanic. The words of the sub expert stays with me. I keep thinking “fiberglass” or the window rated at only 1300m, popped like an eggshell. If rescue is not effected, that would be preferable to sitting, thinking about it for 40hrs.

MSN

 

[Huntn]

rich people toys is why.

I wonder what kind of regulation are they have for such a craft, if any?

 

[mollyc]

I wonder what kind of regulation are they have for such a craft, if any?

zero.

OceanGate Was Warned of Potential for ‘Catastrophic’ Problems With Titanic Mission

Experts inside and outside the company warned of potential dangers and urged the company to undergo a certification process.

www.nytimes.com

 

[fooferdoggie]

I wonder what kind of regulation are they have for such a craft, if any?

the CEO was on the sub what complaining about the regulaions hampering innovation. well he is sure innovating now.

 

[Eric]

No matter who these people are it's hard not to feel bad for them, I get they assumed the risk and all but what a terrible way to go. If nothing else hopefully it will introduce some sort of preventative standards or regulation in the future.

 

[Cmaier]

No matter who these people are it's hard not to feel bad for them, I get they assumed the risk and all but what a terrible way to go. If nothing else hopefully it will introduce some sort of preventative standards or regulation in the future.

It’s difficult to do that because once you’re in the open seas, nobody has jurisdiction. So the U.S. can say “any ships flagged here have to meet such and such standards,” and then you go flag your ship in the Bahamas or someplace else. Admiralty law is a giant rathole.

 

[cbum]

"in the open seas, nobody has jurisdiction."

Indeed. Hence the huge problem of essentially indentured servitude exploited by the many unscrupulous shipping/fishing outfits, with sailors getting murdered on the open sea without redress etc.
And if you wonder why that is allowed to occur - policing the open seas is difficult and expensive, and an international legal nightmare.

Back to the "standards" question. The one type entity capable of providing this kind of service are the large insurance companies, providing liability etc coverage for those who ask for it. They have a process to evaluate a vessel so that they can properly risk assess to profitably underwrite.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Hard to believe that this scenario could have been avoided if somebody onboard had an Apple Airtag on them.

Seriously, it's hard for me to believe in 2023 that when something goes down in the ocean there's no way to track it. Is this one of those things where there's no money in it and/or it's too cost prohibitive?