2024 Democrat Presidential Candidates

Yoused

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Great, but that’s not going to stop Trump from lying about another stolen election.

I am not entirely certain that a 3MT theromnuclear device detonated in his diaper could stop him from constantly spewing ferilizer all over the dinner table.

However, in late '19, forces gathered and worked diligently to protect the integrity of the election. Most of them were "liberal" but there was a fair bit of "conservative" participation. They worked behind the scenes, not to get Biden into the WH but to make sure that the election was not rigged. We mostly knew nothing about them, but their efforts were a large part of why Team ShitGibbon could gain no purchase in over five dozen courthouse charades.
 

Eric

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I've been doing it successfully since about '93
Yep and it's been successful for decades until MAGA and their ilk poisoned it. But this isn't something Dems have to worry about, we'll mail in our ballots as we always have, nutbag Republicans won't and will either show up at a polling location or skip it. Have fun with that.
 

GermanSuplex

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Donald Trump is still telling people outright not to vote by mail. Did so within the last couple of weeks.

Democrats are worried about another Trump term, but republicans need to worry about winning at all. Trump is going to hurt republicans down ballot, no question about it, couple that with his legal fees and trying to take over the party’s spending, and you’re going to have a lot of republicans on the ticket very nervous. And they should be, and they all deserve to lose.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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It's interesting that voter fraud is equal opportunity but only the right thinks it's rampantly flipping election results all over the place. We've had Republican governors in my ultra Democrat state of CA in my lifetime and nobody was going "stolen election!". We look at the performance of the previous aministration and go "Yeah, I get it."

Trump supporters love Trump for sticking it to Democrats, the left, and the establishment. If you are a supporter but don't like that aspect it's completely inconsequential. It's what he does and is celebrated for by many. Collectively those 3 groups are more than half the country. That's a majority of the country that has reason to vote against him. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that out or an elaborate deep state conspiracy to hand him a loss. It's like these assholes think there's this big voting block going "I hate the way he stomps on my values and that's why I'm voting for him." I hope they use their same logic and vote for Biden.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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SCOTUS rules 9-0 that Trump can remain on Colorado ballot.

Not surprised by that, but I'm pretty damn tired of the right-wing cowards kicking the can and sometimes back and forth. The Supreme Court's reasoning is it's the Senate's job to remove him from the ballot but when it was their job years ago to do something about him they said they can't do anything and it's all up to the Justice Department...but when in it's in the Justice Department's hands we get "Witch hunt!/You can't prosecute a former President!" Go fuck yourselves.
 

Nycturne

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So what controls are in place to make sure ballots are only sent to current voters/residents?

As pointed out, you have to be registered to vote to receive a ballot. Registration is what gets you on the mailing list. If you get purged from the list, no ballot gets sent. Honestly, the biggest difference is that instead of someone at your polling place checking for your name on the list, it's happening when the ballots are being prepared to be mailed.

Also as pointed out, signatures are used to avoid things like double-counting, as are other measures. I wish I kept the link, but there was a recent incident of someone who got two ballots because they updated their mailing address right around the time ballots were being sent out. They reported on social media suggesting that this was insecure and could let someone vote twice, and a worker for their county pointed out that each of those ballots were marked by batch. When an updated ballot is sent like this, the previous ballot is invalidated for that voter and cannot be used to vote. Not only does this avoid double-voting, but it also means that if someone gets that first ballot other than the intended recipient, any attempt to cast a vote with it wouldn't work.

You've got researchers analyzing various voting schemes, and offering suggestions on how to make them more secure. So people are thinking about this more than you might realize. That said, it's not a guarantee that various states/counties will listen, as things like electronic voting are still viewed with skepticism in many research circles, yet here we are. I actually prefer the paper ballots our state uses that are machine scannable. The tech is mature, reasonably cheap, and easy to audit.

In WA, it's possible for me to confirm if my vote was tabulated, which adds transparency to the process. From WA's FAQ on how our mail-in ballots are tabulated:

It is essential to the integrity of an election that ballot processing be accurate and transparent, while maintaining your right to a secret ballot. After you return your voted ballot, your county elections department follows this ballot counting process:

  1. Your signature on the outer return envelope is checked against the signature on file in your voter registration record to make sure they match.
  2. You are credited for voting in that election. This ensures that only one ballot from each voter is counted.
  3. The outer return envelope, which identifies you, is then separated from the inner security envelope, which contains your voted ballot. Your ballot cannot be traced back to you, ensuring the secrecy of your vote.
  4. All ballots are inspected to make sure the tabulating machine will be able to read all votes. Tabulation equipment is tested before every election to make sure it is working accurately.
The above steps continue with all ballots until the election is certified.
 

Eric

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As pointed out, you have to be registered to vote to receive a ballot. Registration is what gets you on the mailing list. If you get purged from the list, no ballot gets sent. Honestly, the biggest difference is that instead of someone at your polling place checking for your name on the list, it's happening when the ballots are being prepared to be mailed.

Also as pointed out, signatures are used to avoid things like double-counting, as are other measures. I wish I kept the link, but there was a recent incident of someone who got two ballots because they updated their mailing address right around the time ballots were being sent out. They reported on social media suggesting that this was insecure and could let someone vote twice, and a worker for their county pointed out that each of those ballots were marked by batch. When an updated ballot is sent like this, the previous ballot is invalidated for that voter and cannot be used to vote. Not only does this avoid double-voting, but it also means that if someone gets that first ballot other than the intended recipient, any attempt to cast a vote with it wouldn't work.

You've got researchers analyzing various voting schemes, and offering suggestions on how to make them more secure. So people are thinking about this more than you might realize. That said, it's not a guarantee that various states/counties will listen, as things like electronic voting are still viewed with skepticism in many research circles, yet here we are. I actually prefer the paper ballots our state uses that are machine scannable. The tech is mature, reasonably cheap, and easy to audit.

In WA, it's possible for me to confirm if my vote was tabulated, which adds transparency to the process. From WA's FAQ on how our mail-in ballots are tabulated:
This is really spot on, sadly will only fall on deaf ears to MAGA like this, they will never listen to the sound reasoning presented here. In the end they're shooting their own foot on this issue.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Just when you think Biden gets it…he doesn’t. Even if Biden is correct on this, the optics are bad and especially now. Know which battles to fight and when. The big take away is going to be Biden doesn’t want people who entered the country illegally to be arrested. Most aren’t going to look into it beyond that.
 

Eric

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Just when you think Biden gets it…he doesn’t. Even if Biden is correct on this, the optics are bad and especially now. Know which battles to fight and when. The big take away is going to be Biden doesn’t want people who entered the country illegally to be arrested. Most aren’t going to look into it beyond that.
A couple of things to untangle here. First of all, this is Trump's court and it seems likely he'll get anything he wants.

Secondly, even if they do arrest them where do they put them? This is a humanitarian question more than anything to me.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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A couple of things to untangle here. First of all, this is Trump's court and it seems likely he'll get anything he wants.

Secondly, even if they do arrest them where do they put them? This is a humanitarian question more than anything to me.


My main point is the average low information voter is initially going to see this as Biden doesn't want people who enter the country illegally arrested and there's a good chance they won't bother looking beyond that initial impression. Where the arrested get housed is of little to no importance to them.
 

GermanSuplex

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Biden tried to pass the most comprehensive, bipartisan immigration bill in decades, and the same people who demanded it chose to kill it. So you can’t be reasonable with these people. I agree with @Eric this is largely a humanitarian issue as well, and Biden can juxtapose this case with the compromises he made for the border deal. Reasonable people will listen, anyone considering voting for Trump in 2024 is not reasonable. So I don’t see this issue being a make or break one by any stretch.

Unless you view it as every issue is a make or break one, in that sense, I guess you are correct.
 

AG_PhamD

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SCOTUS rules 9-0 that Trump can remain on Colorado ballot.

The Colorado ruling if you ask me was pretty insane and should have never been considered as a plausible legal decision in the first place. It doesn’t make sense constitutionally and creates an obvious political hazard for future elections. The 9-0 ruling I think demonstrates that. I will admit, I was not expecting an unanimous ruling but am happy to see all the justices made the reasonable decision absent of their politics and political environment. Right or left or center we all know that’s often not the case.

The fact segments of media and particularly their legal “experts” went along with this idea as if it was justifiable only to be shot down 9-0 should call into question their credibility and honesty. But I suppose this is not at all surprising.

I happily maintain however if the candidate (ie Trump) is found guilty of insurrection, he/she should rightfully barred from running. Trump for whatever reason has not been even charged with insurrection. I’m not a lawyer but I’ve never been opposed to that option being explored by the courts given what happened on Jan 6th.

This is related to the matter of immunity. It’s obvious presidents should not have blanket immunity. Certainly attempting to interfere with an election in a fraudulent manner does not deserve immunity, let alone assassinating a rival. There are probably some situations where immunity may be reasonable, but should not be presumptive.
 

GermanSuplex

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The Colorado ruling if you ask me was pretty insane and should have never been considered as a plausible legal decision in the first place. It doesn’t make sense constitutionally

Great, let's disregard it when convenient and adhere religiously to it when convenient. That's pretty much what we do anyways, so lets just get rid of the idea that insurrectionists and traitors can't run for office. Let's also do away with the age requirement, why should big brother get to decide someone is too young to run if that's what the people want?

Also, predicting SC rulings is like predicting elections. You can dissect, you can have models, some are better at it than others, but its still just a prediction. Some of the people fighting for this were some of the best conservative constitutional legal experts around, not just the usual liberal and conservative talking heads on TV.

At any rate, you seem to be of the mind what Trump did is unacceptable, but also seem to fully align with his supporters views on who can hold him accountable and for what - which is nobody and nothing, respectively.

What you should be angry about is the vast amount of delicate handling this bozo has received relative to anyone else who's been accused of crimes. He should be in Mar-A-Lago with an ankle bracelet at best, in jail awaiting trial at worst. That a state tried to uphold the constitution is hardly a bad thing, and we needed the precedent anyways.

That's the only good thing the Trump presidency has given us, a better understanding that incompetent criminal assholes can and will run, win and f*ck things up, and we need to know how to handle them when they do.
 

Herdfan

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Great, let's disregard it when convenient and adhere religiously to it when convenient. That's pretty much what we do anyways, so lets just get rid of the idea that insurrectionists and traitors can't run for office.

Well, who is to say he is an insurrectionist or traitor? That is the question.

He has yet to be convicted of either. At least CO had a trial. In Maine, the SOS just declared it. Would you be happy if the TX SOS came out and said Biden is a traitor because he had failed to protect the border and is off the ballot? Pretty ludicrous right? Yet that is what she did.

Some powers are left to the Federal government and the court's decision simply reaffirmed this.

But I would not worry too much about it because the prevailing thought among court followers is that the 3 liberal leaning Justices went along with this to show unity, but will fight when it comes to his immunity claim.
 

GermanSuplex

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Well, who is to say he is an insurrectionist or traitor? That is the question.

He has yet to be convicted of either. At least CO had a trial. In Maine, the SOS just declared it. Would you be happy if the TX SOS came out and said Biden is a traitor because he had failed to protect the border and is off the ballot? Pretty ludicrous right? Yet that is what she did.

No, that's not what she did. There is no "you're not legislating the way we want" clause of the constitution. There is one against insurrection. You're acting as if someone just randomly decided to remove Trump from the ballot for reasons not based on the law. That's not true - Trump was removed from the ballot for reasons that some of the most respected conservative legal scholars and constitutional lawyers agree with. Some do not - and the supreme court sided with those who did not.

What it is not, is an arbitrary removal of Trump from the ballot. You're asking us to pretend January 6 did not happen, or was just some random event that got out of hand and not part of an attempt to overthrow the results of an election, and a willful and intentional plot to disrupt the electoral process in congress . I can't unsee and ignore what happened that day.

This is all moot anyways, because its not like him remaining on the ballot and being beaten fairly will quell those who still think January 6 was something other than what it was. The amount of free passes this dolt gets is beyond comprehension.

What is the theoretical bridge that Trump could cross where you would not defend his actions, and would deem him standing trial a credible result of his actions?
 
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