Grumpy Greta: blah blah blah

Yoused

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I want to see the price tag to decide if it's worth saving the planet or not. Screams of an emergency are all very well but everything has cost and that cost has to be justified. We can't save the planet "at any cost" as that doesn't add up and isn't rational.

Holy crap, that is insane. Just, screw the next generation because, ??? – profits! I mean, so far the concept of terraforming is way beyond the sticks, so, where do we go?


And, this "grumpy" label is some pretty weak tea. Her anger is being deprecated by calling her "grumpy". Yeah, it is a delightful alliteration, but you just do not want to look at what she is yelling about.
 

DT

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The mantra of what can the world do for me "blah, blah, blah" (to quote Greta) is self-centered and egotistical. Now that is a trait of the current young generation who moan about everything to everyone who listens. I don't listen because I'm not interested. Life is what you make of it and it's foolhardy to expect everything to be your way or the highway.

I get being cranky over kids boo-hoo'ing over not getting a new iPhone, but you seem to be taking some kind of general anti "current young generation", and suggesting concern over the environment is somehow self-serving? She's not asking for personal material gain, she's not asking for any kind of "free ride", she's showing concern over the only planet we currently have.

My daughter has a pretty mature and educated understanding of the implications of not doing anything, and she's only 13.


I want to see the price tag to decide if it's worth saving the planet or not.

For my daughter, for my nephew, for our best friend's son, no price tag is too much.

You don't have kids, right?
 
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What is your point you're struggling to make?
My point is that your post hit a threshold where I’m not willing to intellectualize.

what the most hilarious thing is here, and take this from a PhD, that government funded climate research is probably one the lowest paid career option for these people. So you just beat them up for staying in school. Ohh the irony.
 
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I get being cranky over kids boo-hoo'ing over not getting a new iPhone, but you seem to be taking some kind of general anti "current young generation", and suggesting concern over the environment is somehow self-serving? She's not asking for personal material gain, she's not asking for any kind of "free ride", she's showing concern over the only planet we currently have.

My daughter has a pretty mature and educated understanding of the implications of not doing anything, and she's only 13.




For my daughter, for my nephew, for our best friend's son, no price tag is too much.

You don't have kids, right?
There’s a very well-described bias of “old people” being biased to inflate the virtues of their own generation at the expense of young people. These notions don’t stand when tested experimentally. The basis of this cognitive error is one projecting their own knowledge/experience as a 30-100 year old onto their memory of their own teenage selves.

there’s a joke about this:
If everything was better in the past, I wonder how was nostalgia.

————
Obviously climate change is very abstract to some people, but direct pollution should be less so. The issue with capitalism is that privatizing profits but socializing cost is a standard shortcut. Like Exxon, we will be paying the pollution/green house emissions cost of their operations and they’ll get to keep the money and reposition themselves as the heroes of green energy.
 

ericwn

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I get being cranky over kids boo-hoo'ing over not getting a new iPhone, but you seem to be taking some kind of general anti "current young generation", and suggesting concern over the environment is somehow self-serving? She's not asking for personal material gain, she's not asking for any kind of "free ride", she's showing concern over the only planet we currently have.

My daughter has a pretty mature and educated understanding of the implications of not doing anything, and she's only 13.




For my daughter, for my nephew, for our best friend's son, no price tag is too much.

You don't have kids, right?

Doesn’t matter. If the price tag is too high we’ll just take the other planet. Sure there’s something useable close by, right?
 

DT

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Doesn’t matter. If the price tag is too high we’ll just take the other planet. Sure there’s something useable close by, right?

Martians are like, "Look, when you dropped that ridiculous probe, we were kind of OK with it, but you start showing up in person? We're going to have a problem ..."
 

ericwn

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Martians are like, "Look, when you dropped that ridiculous probe, we were kind of OK with it, but you start showing up in person? We're going to have a problem ..."

True. Waiting for them to ride around us immigrants on Mars-horseback and making judgemental comments.
 

DT

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1632942267961.png
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Are we almost to the point where the mods swoop in and edit this thread down to a picture of Clint Eastwood and a chair, or am I thinking of a different forum?
 

hulugu

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What I say is show me the value proposition for what you want to use my tax dollars to do. Climate defenders are always happy to spend other folks money and don't offer any of their own. It is tragic folk lose their homes to floods and wildfires. I don't think I've said otherwise. I have lost power in snow blizzards for extended periods of time so milder winters would help with those issues.

I'm a European.

If you think Europe is insulated from climate change, you've been blinkered and you're about to face a real awakening.

And, to be clear, I thought that climate change was such a problem, and resilience so necessary, that I laid down thousands to set up a solar array at my home, along with a rainwater harvesting system. (The link between energy and water cannot be understated.) My mountain home—a former family ranch—has its own array, and has been humming along for years. We could probably do a better job of knocking down our emissions from our cars—I've got a couple of SUVs, and an old CJ-7 that guzzles fuel at the mountain house—but our overall CO2 emissions are about one-quarter the average American household.

It helps that we live close to my wife's work and my son's school, and we bike a lot. I also have invested heavily in "green" companies, and that's actually paid dividends.

But, again, how do we know we can control the temperature and it isn't a nature thing that the temperature will increase. How much will it cost to fix? $1b? $100b? $1T? $100T? $1kT? $1 zillion (or whatever)? You get the idea. How much does it cost to save these telephone numbers in savings if we don't do anything? Show me the money and I'll tell you if it's worth it to me.

Why don't you go read the reports, and the estimates?

We cannot control the temperature like a thermostat, but by shifting CO2 emissions, we can minimize the greenhouse effect from future emissions. Obviously, if we don't do anything, the cost in damage gets higher as does the cost to stop it.

We're a car speeding toward a concrete wall. The longer we accelerate, the harder it will be to stop. If we stopped 20 feet ago, we'd have to put less effort into stopping. And, for every year we don't do anything, we get closer to the wall. And, if we wait too long, even if we throw our entire effort into stopping, we'll still hit the wall.

You're asking when we'll stop, and I'm telling you that we needed to stop 20 feet ago, and that it gets harder every year. And, the cost to stop is less than the cost of hitting the wall.
 

ericwn

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Does climate change affect Europe?

View attachment 8941


Ouch, that image is from Erftstadt close to where I grew up. Still painful to watch. The amount of destruction in many places there is absolutely unheard of.
The only time in recorded history when people there faced similar destruction was after WW2 which shows us today how hard it was for our grandparents to rebuild the country back then.
 

Yoused

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We're a car speeding toward a concrete wall. The longer we accelerate, the harder it will be to stop. If we stopped 20 feet ago, we'd have to put less effort into stopping. And, for every year we don't do anything, we get closer to the wall. And, if we wait too long, even if we throw our entire effort into stopping, we'll still hit the wall.
The flaw in that analogy is the natural inclination to imagine a flat road. It is a down-grade, that gets steeper the closer we get to the wall. We are not at a point where we can stop, but what we are trying to do now is to keep the steering wheel from going through our collective chest when we hit. To maybe still be able to open the doors and get out, to not burst into flame. All the while struggling with the people who want the bearing greased better, more air in the tires to keep them rolling smoothly, and, darn it, we need that brake fluid for other uses.
 

hulugu

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The flaw in that analogy is the natural inclination to imagine a flat road. It is a down-grade, that gets steeper the closer we get to the wall. We are not at a point where we can stop, but what we are trying to do now is to keep the steering wheel from going through our collective chest when we hit. To maybe still be able to open the doors and get out, to not burst into flame. All the while struggling with the people who want the bearing greased better, more air in the tires to keep them rolling smoothly, and, darn it, we need that brake fluid for other uses.

Better version indeed.

And, we're still surrounded by people who are like "Are we in a car?" "What's internal combustion, are you sure it's not just natural acceleration caused by the Moon?" "How does this work, maybe we can study the issue longer?" "I'll be fine, I'm in the backseat."
 
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Better version indeed.

And, we're still surrounded by people who are like "Are we in a car?" "What's internal combustion, are you sure it's not just natural acceleration caused by the Moon?" "How does this work, maybe we can study the issue longer?" "I'll be fine, I'm in the backseat."
The 'Murican way is sorta like "we don't believe in safety equip' like seatbelts", but also "in airbags we trust."
 
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