ICE Vehicles: General topics

[User.168]

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[Herdfan]

I won’t be getting rid of my petrol vehicles for a long time and will keep those for the pure enjoyment of the driving experience, but I am now looking at the Audi, bmw ix3 and the Hyundai ioniq 5 for the next runabout, because not every daily journey to the shops includes a twisty mountain road.

From a utility standpoint, I think electric cars would be fine for local commutes and weekend shopping trips. Still wouldn't want to take one on a 1,000 mile trip. But most family's have 2 + vehicles so not an issue there.

 

[DT]

From a utility standpoint, I think electric cars would be fine for local commutes and weekend shopping trips. Still wouldn't want to take one on a 1,000 mile trip. But most family's have 2 + vehicles so not an issue there.

Interestingly, in the last few weeks, I've read about (and talked to someone first hand) people making treks longer than 2-3X the single charge range. A couple of ~1K people, one guy and his girlfriend are super hardcore, going offroad, through snow, camping IN the car, it's wild!

A buddy of mine just did ~600 miles in his X LR (I think it's an '18), just requires a touch of planning, and most of the flow of the trip just kind of worked with the charging needs, i.e., a couple of short breaks for a few minute leg stretch, a lunch stop for a full recharge, a stayover at a location with chargers.

There's a ton of planning/navigation tech in a Tesla, assuming this will be the norm moving forward - additionally, there's a number of 3rd party apps like ABRP, in fact, it's a "freemium" service, you should check out the website, you can pick a car, plan some routes, it's pretty enlightening, in fact, it had a small part in my decision.

 

[Herdfan]

Interestingly, in the last few weeks, I've read about (and talked to someone first hand) people making treks longer than 2-3X the single charge range. A couple of ~1K people, one guy and his girlfriend are super hardcore, going offroad, through snow, camping IN the car, it's wild!

A buddy of mine just did ~600 miles in his X LR (I think it's an '18), just requires a touch of planning, and most of the flow of the trip just kind of worked with the charging needs, i.e., a couple of short breaks for a few minute leg stretch, a lunch stop for a full recharge, a stayover at a location with chargers.

There's a ton of planning/navigation tech in a Tesla, assuming this will be the norm moving forward - additionally, there's a number of 3rd party apps like ABRP, in fact, it's a "freemium" service, you should check out the website, you can pick a car, plan some routes, it's pretty enlightening, in fact, it had a small part in my decision.

I guess if you could find enough Tesla Super Chargers (480V, 100A) that will juice it up in 15-20 minutes, then that wouldn't be that bad. But if you are stuck using 240V L2 chargers, that 8 hours would not work, at least for me.

 

[DT]

Oh, duh ...

Link in case ABRP didn't bring you to the right place:

ABRP

ABetterRouteplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

 

[SuperMatt]

Electric Cars for Everyone? Not Unless They Get Cheaper. (Published 2021)

President Biden has made conversion to E.V.s a pillar of climate policy. But government incentives mostly help affluent buyers, not average families.

www.nytimes.com

 

[DT]

@SuperMatt

Now that I agree with, we need some low/mid cost EVs. Sure, all the ultra fast, super hi-tech entries are great, but we need to get a BUNCH of cars in the 25-35K segment.

 

[Herdfan]

@SuperMatt

Now that I agree with, we need some low/mid cost EVs. Sure, all the ultra fast, super hi-tech entries are great, but we need to get a BUNCH of cars in the 25-35K segment.

What ever happened to the Chevy Volt? A former neighbor who worked for Bayer got transferred to Pittsburgh and he bought a Volt. So at work he was able to park right next to the president's i8. The charging station was right by the door.

 

[SuperMatt]

@SuperMatt

Now that I agree with, we need some low/mid cost EVs. Sure, all the ultra fast, super hi-tech entries are great, but we need to get a BUNCH of cars in the 25-35K segment.

That was how much I paid for my e-Golf - $24,5K. We also need to make the $7500 tax credit extended over multiple years so that people that don‘t pay $7500 in taxes in a single year can get the benefit. That being said, since the financing company can get the full tax credit, the lease deals on inexpensive EVs can be quite good.

 

[SuperMatt]

What ever happened to the Chevy Volt? A former neighbor who worked for Bayer got transferred to Pittsburgh and he bought a Volt. So at work he was able to park right next to the president's i8. The charging station was right by the door.

Replaced by the Bolt. They went from a 25-mile EV with an ICE “backup” to a full EV.

 

[DT]

This is pretty neat:

"Tesla released more details about its effort to deploy large-scale battery recycling, and it claims that it can recover about 92% of battery cell materials with its recycling process."

Tesla claims 92% battery cell material recovery in new recycling process

Tesla released more details about its effort to deploy large-scale battery recycling, and it claims that it can recover about...

electrek.co

 

[JohnR]

I guess if you could find enough Tesla Super Chargers (480V, 100A) that will juice it up in 15-20 minutes, then that wouldn't be that bad. But if you are stuck using 240V L2 chargers, that 8 hours would not work, at least for me.

Just want to clarify...are you saying V2 supercharger (150kW) takes 8 hours?

If you are, then that is incorrect. Even the V1 superchargers, if you can find one that hasn't been upgraded to V2, can charge up to 80% in about 30-45 minutes.

There are 25,000+ superchargers...I think you can find enough of them Heck, in KY, there are 2 supercharger stations going up right now, and another one going near Evansville IN

 

[JohnR]

Replaced by the Bolt. They went from a 25-mile EV with an ICE “backup” to a full EV.

Unfortunately, GM has recalled some bolts due to fire

GM issues second recall of Chevy Bolt EVs after vehicles catch fire

GM said officials with the automaker and LG Energy Solution, which supplies the battery cells, have identified a second "rare manufacturing defect" in the EVs.

www.cnbc.com

 

[DT]

Just want to clarify...are you saying V2 supercharger (150kW) takes 8 hours?

If you are, then that is incorrect. Even the V1 superchargers, if you can find one that hasn't been upgraded to V2, can charge up to 80% in about 30-45 minutes.

There are 25,000+ superchargers...I think you can find enough of them Heck, in KY, there are 2 supercharger stations going up right now, and another one going near Evansville IN

I’m 98% sure he means L2/240v, i.e., a max of 48a and not a Supercharger as he differentiated between the two.

 

[Herdfan]

Just want to clarify...are you saying V2 supercharger (150kW) takes 8 hours?

If you are, then that is incorrect. Even the V1 superchargers, if you can find one that hasn't been upgraded to V2, can charge up to 80% in about 30-45 minutes.

There are 25,000+ superchargers...I think you can find enough of them Heck, in KY, there are 2 supercharger stations going up right now, and another one going near Evansville IN

I may be. Here is my source: https://electrek.co/2021/07/06/how-long-does-it-take-to-charge-a-tesla/

 

[User.168]

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[DT]

No, you are not. You are talking about L1 and L2 AC chargers. The poster you quoted is talking about DC superchargers, which have various versions, such as V1, V2.

Not directed at you since you help to clear it up, but there's some terminology mixup, from the article @Herdfan posted:

• Level 1 AC (120V outlet at home): 20-40 hours
• Level 2 AC (Third party chargers/Tesla chargers/Tesla home charger): 8-12 hours
• Level 3 DCFC (Tesla Supercharger): 15-25 minutes

Those are LEVELS 1, 2 and 3, then within the LEVEL 3 DC Fast Charger spec, Tesla has different versions, V1 (mostly gone I think?), V2 is 150 kW, V3 is 250 kW.

Note, that DC Fast Charging isn't unique to Tesla, there are non-Tesla DCFCs, in fact, the buddy of mine I mentioned above, stopped at a ChargePoint EV station, it had ChaDeMo chargers, which are DCFC, and he has a a ChaDeMo_to_Tesla adapter so he got 50 kW.

WOTS is the V3 are going to be bumped to 350 kW (not sure if it'll be redesignated as a V4 ...) and that upcoming models support that spec.

Also, the non-Tesla manufacturers are starting to introduce 800v DCFC, that's twice the previous spec, now we're getting into 300 miles in 15 minute territory.

 

[Herdfan]

Not directed at you since you help to clear it up, but there's some terminology mixup, from the article @Herdfan posted:

• Level 1 AC (120V outlet at home): 20-40 hours
• Level 2 AC (Third party chargers/Tesla chargers/Tesla home charger): 8-12 hours
• Level 3 DCFC (Tesla Supercharger): 15-25 minutes

Those are LEVELS 1, 2 and 3, then within the LEVEL 3 DC Fast Charger spec, Tesla has different versions, V1 (mostly gone I think?), V2 is 150 kW, V3 is 250 kW.

When I was growing up and we had to charge batteries in cars, mowers etc, my dad always told me that slower is better, ie 2A trickle is better than 6A fast.

I am guessing that is no longer a consideration?

 

[DT]

I see this "concern" about charging times from people who claim they drive long distances on various forums and in youtube comments. I find it strange that people who claim to drive long distances regularly in the US a lot also seem to be oblivious of the charging infrastructure that is all around them. Maybe they just drive between One Horse Town and Horse Shoe Gold Mine back and forth constantly? I don't have an electric car (yet) and I have noticed all sorts of fast DC chargers popping up in the UK and in Europe

I'm seeing a lot more people talk about long[er] distance use, being more casual about hitting the road without worrying about overly planning.

I just realized that the included Tesla charger (which I leave in the car as sort of a backup), supports 120/240v and up to 32a, and has modular plug options - including a full set for ~$200 - with every single connector spec in the US, and the adapter plugs have firmware that sets the max based on the connector spec. So heck, we could pop down to the BILs place in NSB, and get like 24-30mi/hour using his dryer outlet

 

[User.168]

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