Mob storms Capitol

Arkitect

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The right’s new conspiracy theory: blame left for Capitol riot

"Sarah Palin made the same claim, telling Fox News host Martha MacCallum that it was unclear who was instigating the riots. “A lot of it is the antifa folks,” Palin said, citing “pictures” she had seen. Laura Ingraham, one of the channel’s primetime hosts, spent much of the hour of her show suggesting without evidence that the Trump protesters had been infiltrated by antifa."

Consider my little mind boggled.

What the actual fuck?

It was unclear who was instigating the riots?
How about this for a start?
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346917022819524611/


Sometimes I really want to commit some GBH.
These people need more than just talking to.
They need a few slaps up the side of the head.
Hard.
 
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U

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Some people have said time and time again that those sending warnings about the US slipping into fascism were just being paranoid and that we should humour Trump and his supporters and it will all go away. It hasn't gone away. We saw an (admittedly really poor) attempt at a coup yesterday. We have people in the media and some politicians trying to deny what happened or shift the blame. I don't think this is one of those situations where doing shrugging, white-washing and hoping for the best is going to work out.
I maintain my position, and I never use the word racism lightly:
Racism plays a huge role in these events. Trumpists thought they OWN the system and have the power to relitigate the election. And when that plan imploded and they felt a similar powerlessness impoverished communities of color experience, they did the same, but worse. They attempted a mentally challenged coup d'état. If they were black, this would have been a blood bath.

This is more of a PR disaster than anything else. Hopefully, we as a nation will learn from this and nip this shit in the bud in the future.
 

Arkitect

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Some people have said time and time again that those sending warnings about the US slipping into fascism were just being paranoid and that we should humour Trump and his supporters and it will all go away. It hasn't gone away. We saw an (admittedly really poor) attempt at a coup yesterday. We have people in the media and some politicians trying to deny what happened or shift the blame. I don't think this is one of those situations where doing shrugging, white-washing and hoping for the best is going to work out.
100% agree.

For the past 4 years they have seen zero consequences to their actions.

Sitting on the European side across the Atlantic I am increasingly puzzled by the supposed "checks and balances" of the US system.

What checks?
What balances?
From where I'm sitting there ain't none.

Here you have an unhinged individual doing and saying whatever he feels like, inciting his followers to riot… and… so what? *shrug*

Put them on trial. God knows you won't have to go and dig very deep for charges.

Throw them in jail.

Trump in an orange boiler suit and manacles. Him and his crooked coterie of lawyers. End of.

The time for appeasement is over. In fact, it was over a hell of a long time ago.
 

Renzatic

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I don't think this is one of those situations where doing shrugging, white-washing and hoping for the best is going to work out.

I agree. Allowing Trump to walk away from this with nothing more than a few stern words thrown his way would imply his innocence in the matter, giving him implicit permission to carry on as he has been. Thing is, we have to accept that bringing him fully to task over everything he's done won't be an immediate end to the problem, since any action taken against him will justify a reaction from his base, who will believe he's being unfairly persecuted by a tyrannical state out for blood.

With Trump, we've created a monster we can't escape from. We're damned if we do, damned if we don't.
 

lizkat

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I’m watching Morning Joe, and you should hear the anger, the fury, in the voices of the hosts and their guests. There is a lot of talk among the political class about invoking the 25th or impeaching Trump again. There seems to be a lot of agreement that this president cannot go on, not even for another two weeks. It’s too dangerous.

I hope the momentum keeps up. This needs to happen.

T minus 12.

It needs to happen but not because some TV show participants think so. Trump needs to be removed because the VP and Trump's remaining cabinet heads agree it's necessary even if they might prefer impeachment and removal to a 25A process. I can understand their reluctance to try an involuntary 25A removal for the first time when it would be for a psychiatric or neurological impairment at issue.

If those individuals don't think removing Trump from office is beyond necessary to crucially required at this point, then they should be asked why not. They should asked by the incoming majority leader of the US Senate, the outgoing majority leader of the US Senate and the Speaker of the House. As for what Kevin McCarthy (minority leader of the House) might think, we'd be best served by flipping a coin to indicate how he'd weigh in. Maybe we could include the former Speaker of the House; at least from the sidelines, Paul Ryan spoke clearly about the rule of law.

The respondents should be required to answer on record in public, now. Just so we all know why each or any of them thinks this sitting president still capable of governance at this time under the USA's rule of law via the president's own sworn oath to uphold the Constitution and why they decline to deploy the 25A.

Then the House should go ahead and file and pass a second and simple impeachment of Trump and the House managers should walk it to the Senate and the new and former majority leaders of the 117th Senate should jointly urge a speedy trial on the article(s) of impeachment.

If the Senate THIS TIME cannot manage to remove Trump from office for the two remaining weeks of his now clearly incompetent presidency, the wording of the 25th Amendment makes it clear that involuntary removal does not have to be governed solely by decision of the sitting VP and sitting cabinet. It has language to the effect of "or other body as appointed by Congress" -- so let Congress decide if say a 2/3 majority vote in both houses is sufficient guarantee of protection of the people's interests in an involuntary temporary removal of a sitting president for incapacity to govern. Same stipulations as in original language, i.e. prez can self-certify capable immediately but 4 days pass with acting prez in place, then the body that removed him can remove him again for 21 days with acting prez prevailing meanwhile.

In this case by then Biden's inauguration would have occurred.

Let Congress then figure out what they'd do if the necessity for their new law stipulating "other body" capable of a 25A involuntary removal had occurred earlier in a sitting president's term. It's entirely possible the 25A should be amended to better represent all the people's interests as a fallback when a cabinet and VP may for whatever reason prove incapable of making an apparently necessary decision. Amendment of an amendment is a lengthy process (and that's ok too). The people are unfortunately not in a situation right now anyway where it's clear to "most Americans" how any amendment to the 25A should read.
 

SuperMatt

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Will the rioters/terrorists be punished?

Some bragged publicly about their crime; we cannot allow them to go unpunished:

Legal experts say sedition would be easy to prosecute; this fits the textbook definition:
 

DT

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My god, the stumbling, fumbling at the other place over this, BUT BUT BUT ...

That hawkeye user can eat a bag of dicks too, they always pop in with this air of superiority, and even worse, want to buddy up in the general community area.
 

JayMysteri0

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The right’s new conspiracy theory: blame left for Capitol riot

"Sarah Palin made the same claim, telling Fox News host Martha MacCallum that it was unclear who was instigating the riots. “A lot of it is the antifa folks,” Palin said, citing “pictures” she had seen. Laura Ingraham, one of the channel’s primetime hosts, spent much of the hour of her show suggesting without evidence that the Trump protesters had been infiltrated by antifa."

Consider my little mind boggled.

What the actual fuck?

It was unclear who was instigating the riots?
How about this for a start?
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346917022819524611/


Sometimes I really want to commit some GBH.
These people need more than just talking to.
They need a few slaps up the side of the head.
Hard.
I know it's a myth that Palin claimed she could see Alaska from her home.

I think it's another myth that Palin could 👀 ANTIFA from her home in pictures.

From the same crowd that had jack shit to say when it was known by federal authorities that white supremacists were infiltrating BLM protests in the hopes of starting riots to kick off a race war.

STFU
 

SuperMatt

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The right’s new conspiracy theory: blame left for Capitol riot

"Sarah Palin made the same claim, telling Fox News host Martha MacCallum that it was unclear who was instigating the riots. “A lot of it is the antifa folks,” Palin said, citing “pictures” she had seen. Laura Ingraham, one of the channel’s primetime hosts, spent much of the hour of her show suggesting without evidence that the Trump protesters had been infiltrated by antifa."

Consider my little mind boggled.

What the actual fuck?

It was unclear who was instigating the riots?
How about this for a start?
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1346917022819524611/


Sometimes I really want to commit some GBH.
These people need more than just talking to.
They need a few slaps up the side of the head.
Hard.
A debunking of the lies blaming “Antifa” for the Capitol breach:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1347055062284120064/
 

lizkat

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It's disappointing that any right leaning media are focused on "alternate facts" about the storming of the Capitol by a Trump-incited mob. You'd think there would be a limit to their perversion of a national interest in fact based reporting.

Yes of course there can be infiltrators, there usually are a few in any protest of size that turns violent. Anarchists can be of no particular political stripe. They are about using chaos to raise uncertainty and distrust, so outcomes like busted heads or broken plate glass windows are just background music, doesn't matter to them if cops or civilians end up dead and it doesn't matter to them which "side" anyone is on. Violence breaking out is in itself mission accomplished.

But that is not the point of what happened when a Trump-incited mob stormed the Capitol yesterday. Yeah he incited it. It doesn't matter if infiltrators figured on making hay out of it. The point was that Trump incited it, that it happened, that he was even reluctant to interfere with its rollout when it happened and that his fucking tweets afterwards were so halfhearted about not condoning violence and still so wholehearted about his delusion of having won an election that he lost. For once Twitter not only marked out his tweets as violations of policy but suspended his account for 12 hours, an overdue first if you ask me.

Why are the right leaning media not reporting some of what mainstream media was reporting even in real time during the lockdowns of the invaded buildings, since some of those reporters were swept up in the maelstrom? The conservative outlets' negligence in not presenting more of American history as it has happened is pretty astounding.

Among those who invaded the Capitol building for instance was a newly elected state representative of the West Virginia legislature. He actually documented his participation... and when later confronted by the state's house delegates administrator, said he was just there as a member of independent media. Yeah. These are the patriots some constituents have chosen to elect these days in the USA. Whether the particular constituents approve of how that particular state legislator behaved yesterday remains to be seen. It's possible they do approve, but if so then it's down to the Trump and his enabling media outlets parading Trump's ongoing and false allegations about the 2020 elections.

Why are conservative outlets not rejecting Trump's ambivalent remark (after Biden's election was formally certified in Congress in the wee hours this morning) that while he would see to an orderly transition, he still totally disagreed with the outcome of the election. So what? Lots of us "disagreed" with the outcome of Trump's election but we accepted his victory and hoped his presidency would be a success for all Americans. It wasn't exactly that, was it... on balance... but that's how it goes sometimes. Elections are won or lost but we go on together and keep arguing if we don't agree. Same thing this time around, only with so much more fucking drama and damage this time to our sense of what it means to be an American.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Shadow puppet posted this in PRSI, which I think best sums up the hypocritical reach to project blame on anyone else but...
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1347218920793661447/

This reminds me of when it was being said that BLM protests were infiltrated by extremists and to my knowledge the only individuals who were positively identified as extremists were right wing extremists. Similarly I also believe the only voter fraud that was proven were Trump voters.

I’ve lost track of how many times the right has been the textbook definition of he who smelt it dealt it.
 
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