Republicans Want to 'Phase Out' Electric Cars to Protect Fossil Fuels

SuperMatt

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DeSantis is removing sales tax from gas stoves. Not exactly a great help to the state’s residents, since only 38% of stoves in the state are gas.

Most people with a gas hookup in their home or condo kitchen already have a gas stove. If you don’t have that, why would you buy a gas stove? The whole thing is just theatrics for Ron, or as I like to think of him: Trump 2: electric gas boogaloo.
 

AG_PhamD

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90% of EV charging occurs at night when the grid is quiet. The other option is to continue to use ICE vehicles, heat up the planet and use more electricity for AC for the lucky 10% that can afford. The rest of the planet can burn though?

Thats true, all things equal, but ignores the trend/initiatives of phasing our fossil fuel plants for solar, particularly in places like CA. If cars are to be charged at night and we plan to stop using fossil fuels for largely solar, how do we store it? Phasing out of nuclear doesn’t help either, though that’s not applicable in CA. Thankfully that tide seems to be shifting in the US on nuclear.

This also assumes everyone will be charging their cars at home, which I’m not entirely convinced of. While most people have homes with garages or carports or a driveway, there are still many who do not. What do you do in cities with street parking? Or existing apartment buildings where the install cost for chargers would be astronomical and not worth renters investing in only to move? How do you get landlords or condo associations to install them? What about the cost of upgrading all the old houses with 60amp service which costs $3000-$5000+ plus the cost of charger installation ($1500-3000). For some people charging on a 15amp outlet at 3-4mph might be fine, but I don’t think many people would be thrilled about that.

With the improvements in fast charging, I think it’s entirely possible in the future that we could be using fast charging stations like gas stations. Or we’ll see more charging stations at workplaces. As it stands now, in Boston I think there’s a lot of Tesla owners who do not have at-home EV charging. The Lucid Air reportedly charges 150mi in 10 minutes, which makes me think home charging may not be as relevant to drivers in the future as it is now. If you can easily charge hundreds of miles into your car in minutes and fast chargers are ubiquitous, people might forgo home charging. From an infrastructure standpoint it’s much more practical. Much like how most of us don’t have home gas pumps. But this would potentially mean chargers are being primarily used during the day.

I’m not sure why you’re creating a false binary here. I’m not against renewables or EVs, but I am against illogical decisions, like pushing EV’s while our grid is already having problems today and not having a clear plan for the grid- like how to handle solar storage. How about the option of using funding to put solar and wind the most efficient areas first where they benefit most and are most cost effective? And perhaps using nuclear to remove the need for fossil fuel base load plants?
 
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AG_PhamD

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You seem to be viewing "what makes sense" through a lens of what you are accustomed to, which appears to be that of a growth oriented socioeconomic system that is quite simply not sustainable. Our "energy needs" are ridiculous and they are damaging not only our environment but, IMO, also our psyches. Convenience is pleasant, but it is making us soft and fluffy, which in the end, again IMO, is not a good thing.
Once you give things to people, it’s very hard to take them away. That’s the reality of things. Take Obamacare for example.

In some way I agree in theory- people don’t need giant homes, inefficient vehicles, to throw away 1/2 the food they buy, etc. The world would be better off if devices weren’t designed to be disposable after a few years or for planned obsolescence.

But good luck trying to get people to give up their excesses in life. Especially the ultra wealthy who control the strings of power. They would have to be the first to give up their mansions, numerous vacation homes, private jets, yachts the size of small cruise ships, etc. Or the large companies and their lobbies who benefit from consumerism.

Growing up in the 90’s there was always an aspiration of materialism and consumerism in media. The stereotypical “new money” lifestyle. I can only imagine in many respects this is only worse today in young people due to social media, not even considering characters like Andrew Tate and other scam artists. Many people who grow up wealthy want to maintain that lifestyle and many that didn’t want to achieve it.

I grew up in an affluent family, but compared to many others in town, mine was fairly middle class. This is despite them having a $3m 5500sq ft+ house, nice cars, sending 3 kids private schools + college debt free. Such was the environment of wealth (or in some cases more of an illusion of wealth) and privilege that in high school many of my peers’ conception of being “poor” was the parents who drove Toyotas, I kid you not.

I came to realize long ago “more” does not create happiness. That and how disgusting the greed and selfishness was among a lot of my peers and some of their parents. I credit my parents for not raising me to be an a-hole. Most people are well aware of the studies finding money ≠ happiness, past basic needs. Seemingly few actually internalize that idea, often living to the maximum degree their income and credit line allows.

My wife and I both earn a very comfortable living. But we have little interest in chasing materialism or presenting an ostentatious lifestyle. Despite being a “car guy” and being able to afford a new car, I still drive a 14 year old BMW (handed down from my father when I graduated college years ago) because it runs fine. isn’t yet a money pit, and is in surprisingly good condition.

Back to your points, I don’t think this is so much a matter of perspective, it’s largely a matter of human nature and the reality that creates which extends into our culture. It’s not surprising human instinct encourages materialism for survival advantage, which is probably also why it’s a psychological coping mechanism for many.

But my point about “making sense” was about allocation of resources in an energy transition. Even if everyone cut their energy consumption by 50%, it doesn’t change the we’re still be reliant on dirty power generation methods and the fact a solar and wind panel location significantly affects efficiency, which has its own opportunity costs including environmental impacts.

And we haven’t begun to touch the surface about not making sense when it comes to things like nuclear (the obvious answer to the energy situation), rare earth element mining/refining, solar manufacturing, future grid frequency management, energy storage, etc. But of course in politics, it’s the optics that matter, not reality.
 

AG_PhamD

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Can you still buy a tungsten bulb? Can you still buy a regular old halogen bulb?
Yes and yes. At least in Massachusetts.

I'm sure CA is going to be all over banning gas stoves and it doesn't bode well for gas fireplaces either...log burning fireplaces already banned in new structures many years ago.
Seriously? For the 1 or 2 fires people have in their fire places a year, if ever?

DeSantis is removing sales tax from gas stoves. Not exactly a great help to the state’s residents, since only 38% of stoves in the state are gas.

Most people with a gas hookup in their home or condo kitchen already have a gas stove. If you don’t have that, why would you buy a gas stove? The whole thing is just theatrics for Ron, or as I like to think of him: Trump 2: electric gas boogaloo
This sounds essentially like political trolling by means of law, which is pretty disgusting.

Theres a lot of people with a desire to have gas. But to retrofit gas I would imagine is pretty expensive if you need a connection to the street or have a tank burried.

In reality, the much more significant issue could be hot water and home heating, the latter is pretty irrelevant in FL.

Did they phase out electric cars yet? I want to know if they’re coming to take mine away so I can make other plans to get to work.
It was a resolution, not a law. They’re not banned, just don’t expect any state subsidies I guess.
 
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