Sodium ion is probably the future for EVs in the mid term. They're larger and heavier than lithium ion batteries, but they have the advantage of not needing any rare metal components to produce.
Republicans Want to 'Phase Out' Electric Cars to Protect Fossil Fuels
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Sodium ion is probably the future for EVs in the mid term. They're larger and heavier than lithium ion batteries, but they have the advantage of not needing any rare metal components to produce.
It’s my understanding a Sodium Ion-Lithium Ion hybrid is the more likely mid-term possibility… or perhaps nearer midterm. It’s my understanding sodium ion, as it stands now, is about half the energy density and has about 1/3 of the lifespan compared to lithium. Battery packs combining both technologies could limit the size/weight increase and make the lifespan less of an issue, while reducing the need for lithium and presumably reducing cost.
It would make some sense to have a battery with a long cycle count to handle the initial discharge that will be used more frequently while using shorter cycle batteries to handle the less frequently used capacity. Mixing battery types has problems but wouldn’t be with proper engineering.
On the other hand, I believe Sodium has a better operating temperature range, which could also be beneficial in hybrid batteries.
With time I imagine some of the weaknesses of Sodium can be improved, but I imagine there are inherent physical/chemical properties that limit the energy density.
Luckily battery research is a huge field of research at the moment. Hopefully someone will come up with something that’s a better choice than lithium ion.
Another shorter term option is lithium iron phosphate, which are commonly used in marine applications. They’re cheaper, don’t require colbalt or nickel, have better operating temps, but at the expense of worse energy density, but better than sodium ion. They’re also safer than lithium ion when it comes to fire risk.
Well, we either move away from Fossil fuels or we choke/sweat with them. They don’t want any part of an honest discussion about the future of the planet. It’s all about today, the current economy, with ZERO vision about our and our grandkid’s collective futures.
Banning electric cars makes zero sense, for anything other than Right Wing politics and keeping the suckers plied on Koolaid.
As a species we have not yet earned the right to survive…
The lifespan issue is the one biggest concern, and probably the one reason why we're not seeing more Na-ion batteries now. Plus, the heavier materials required to produce the same amount of energy as a Li-ion equivalent means that you won't be seeing them in laptops or phones anytime soon.
But they're non-flammable, do perform better over a wider temperature gradient, and it's primarily material can be harvested from seawater. That'd make it a decent alternative for cars (though the extra weight would be a concern), and practically a no-brain solution for homes.
turbineseaplane
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Sort of amazing since they also like to pretend they are all about “families”
The louder he spoke of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.
Yoused
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They can go to induction, which is at least as good as gas and typically more energy efficient.
turbineseaplane
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I was just talking with an appliance installer who was at my house, and, even here in Idaho, induction cooktops are getting installed left and right he said.
(we are in a pretty darned “red” area)
Herdfan
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Induction cooktops still require a 40-50A 240V feed. That's fine in new construction, but there are a lot of older homes with gas ranges and 60-100A services. My parent's house was built in 1962 and is all gas with a 100A service. My previous home was only 400 sq ft bigger and had a 400A service and it was all gas.
A lot of people won't be able to afford to upgrade and will be forced to buy old half worn out stuff so they can eat.
Who cares what they can or can't afford? Hell, I bet most of them have refrigerators!
Yoused
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It appears that no one is actually being forced to replace their gas stoves at this point.
Yeah, just like the lighting police went through my house a few years ago and said I'd have to replace all my tungsten bulbs with LEDs. We couldn't afford 'em, so we started using candles and lanterns.
Gas hookups for new buildings will be banned in those that are 7 stories or less in 2023. Everything else in 2027. So no gas cooking, heat, or water. But to clarify, restuarants are apparently exempt, at least for the time building.
And I need to correct myself, while NY has a lot of renewables, apparently the local grid of NYC has 75% of its electricity sourced from fossil fuels. So unless the city can up there renewable sources considerably in the relatively near future, things probably will not be any more efficient and perhaps even less. It’s a shame the Indian Point nuclear station was shut down. Like with Germany, most of the power was replaced with fossil fuels, particularly gas- which at least is the better option amongst the fossil fuels. And to be clear, if you pay extra money on your electrical bill for renewable energy, that doesn’t actually mean your energy is coming from more renewables.
NYC also has the problem of limited transmission lines coming into the city. This has been a problem for a long, long time. Such projects are often blocked by environmentalists. In 2022 two new transmission lines were approved which will bring hydro from CA.
I’m all for using renewables where they make sense. Solar typically isn’t the most sensible choice in the Northeast considering they produce something like 70-80% less power than somewhere like the Southwest. Wind has some potential, much more than Solar, but of course has limited availability too. Considering the natural resources, emissions, and money it takes to switch power sources, I think we need to consider what infrastructure makes sense now to invest in and where we should hold off until we have better tech.
I’m not sure how NYC and other places expect to pull off a huge renewable energy generation switch while also converting everything that uses fuel to electric. The current grid in many places (ie NYC and California and Texas) already struggle to produce enough power as it is.
I don’t see these 10 year goals happening unless we actually invest in new power generation on a massive scale. And the initiatives that do exist to create renewable sources tend not to consider the problem of reliability/storage.
fischersd
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In terms of cooking, everyone will either switch to propane, or the gas companies will start liquifying natural gas and delivering it in a similar fashion (but, I believe that propane condenses better and you get more BTU's for the same weight) - so, maybe that's the better fix. (though, what do we do with the butane and methane that's separated from the natural gas?
If we limit its use to just cooking (stove tops and grills), then that's a pretty small carbon footprint.
If we limit its use to just cooking (stove tops and grills), then that's a pretty small carbon footprint.
Herdfan
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Correct. But you may not be able to buy a new one in the future in some places.
Can you still buy a tungsten bulb? Can you still buy a regular old halogen bulb?
Don't think you can buy the first, but I do know that as of 16 days ago the manufacture or importation of the second is now prohibited. And you will be unable to buy one come July 1.
There are some nice Tungsten look LED's though.
Herdfan
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Not sure propane is a solution. Burning propane on an open burner is not much different that natural gas. Natural gas a catch-all term for a number of hydrocarbons in a gaseous form.
Where my house it, my natural gas comes from a well field not too far away. It has a very high BTU because it has not been stripped like pipeline gas.
fischersd
Meh
Well, propane likely has a cleaner carbon footprint, as it doesn't contain methane.
5 Differences Between Natural Gas and Propane
Understanding the differences between natural gas & propane is essential to choosing the right type of fuel for your Charles Town, WV, home.
www.griffithenergyservices.com
Lots of good tidbits in that article, including:
"Natural gas is mostly made up of methane, a greenhouse gas that’s about 84 times more potent than carbon dioxide."
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I'm sure CA is going to be all over banning gas stoves and it doesn't bode well for gas fireplaces either...log burning fireplaces already banned in new structures many years ago.
I also predict some chefs and foodies losing their shit. I assume the main advantage is more control over the temp? But at the end of the day heating a pan is heating a pan. I recently bypassed this whole controversy by getting a large electric skillet that heats evenly across the whole surface and in my experience heats up faster with more control than any gas or electric stove I've used. On a similar note I also got a large toaster oven/air fryer because I don't need the heat-up time, energy consumption, and space for a 20-pound turkey just to cook french fries.
So people should maybe take a good look at their cooking habits before deciding what is unnecessary or redundant. Don't always assume it's the standard option that's been there your entire life.
Nycturne
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Well, propane likely has a cleaner carbon footprint, as it doesn't contain methane.
5 Differences Between Natural Gas and Propane
Understanding the differences between natural gas & propane is essential to choosing the right type of fuel for your Charles Town, WV, home.
Lots of good tidbits in that article, including:
"Natural gas is mostly made up of methane, a greenhouse gas that’s about 84 times more potent than carbon dioxide."
I thought the impetus for looking at gas stoves was indoor air quality, rather than CO2 specifically. As we seal up houses to keep heat in, one of the side effects is build up of pollutants indoors to higher concentrations than you’d find outdoors. Reducing how much we pollute indoors helps somewhat, as would better overhead ventilation, but seeing our own indoor air quality issues the last couple years is what made us decide our next stove will be electric (the branch circuit is already sized for it as the gas stove was added a couple decades after the initial construction).
That said, while a natural gas burner will leak a small amount of unburnt methane, the final result isn’t nearly as bad as the scary number makes it sound as very little methane escapes the burning process, and the rest is converted into CO2 via burning. Doing some rough math based on the fact that 1 methane molecule will turn into 1 CO2 molecule plus a couple water molecules from burning, the result is that natural gas with 1.3% unburnt methane has a combined greenhouse effect double that of 100% burnt natural gas (i.e. full conversion of methane to CO2).
Leaks on the other hand…
Herdfan
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Our new house has a fresh air exchanger as part of the HVAC system because of how well the house is sealed. First time we have had one of those.
Does anyone have a gas stove without some sort of venting either a downdraft or a hood? Turn the switch on and the problem goes away, at least as far as indoor AQ.
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