Roe vs. Wade overturned

[JayMysteri0]

One reason I've really loathed this discussion, is because of what we normally would call "unintended consequences". The honest brutal fact is, none of these things are "unintended", they are just plainly "unconcerned", or the party involved just didn't give a fuck about anyone or anything else but their own dogma.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1547913014279413761/
https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1547925637905543168/

This is the true importance of "separation of church & state". Decisions aren't made for the populace based on someone's feeling or beliefs, but what's good for citizenry of the state / country. It was one thing when idiots followed other idiots and brought up medicines & products used for other things during the pandemic. This instead can serious if not catastrophic medical harm. It won't be just women of color dying more often in pregnancies, it will add more women dying unnecessarily due to this.

It's also causing effects on other things that shouldn't even be affected.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1548012136567189509/

Dafuk?!

Then there is just bizarre ass end arounds. Such as the interaction posted earlier, where anti abortionists NOW want to insert exceptions into their draconian no exceptions policies, after the 10 year old needed to leave her state for an abortion. According that "witness" that wouldn't have been considered an abortion. When anyone past the age of learning about sex knows that an abortion is a medical procedure NOT a late added exception. To the idiots in congress who now want to start child support payments way early on, using Social Security. Something they try to eliminate every other day of the week. All in an attempt to make the fetus a person, since it can collect payments? Wha? They really going to enforce rapists paying child support for children the mother didn't want to have to carry? Really? Are we really NOT seeing all the cruelty involved here?

Republicans Use 'Child Support' As Back-Door Scheme to Make Fetuses People

The Unborn Child Support Act would amend the Social Security Act to require child support payments within “the first month in which the child was conceived.”

jezebel.com

The bill, first introduced by Sens. Roger Wicker (R-MI), Cindy Hyde-Smith (R-MI), Rep. Mike Johnson (R-LA), and other Congressional Republicans on Wednesday, would amend the Social Security Act “to ensure that child support for unborn children is collected and distributed under the child support enforcement program.”

In an almost comical attempt to market the bill as a benevolent act of feminism rather than a ploy to accord embryos legal personhood, Hyde-Smith said the Unborn Child Support Act “would help ensure women have opportunities to receive child-support payments from the earlier days of their pregnancy” in post-Roe v. Wade America.

“I hope good legislation, like the Unborn Child Support Act, gets more support now that the [Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health] decision encourages us to look more seriously at supporting mothers and their unborn children,” Hyde-Smith, famous for “joking” about her desire to attend an old-fashioned Southern lynching, said this week.

Let’s call this bill what it is: an attempt to somehow dehumanize women and pregnant people even further. As Jezebel’s Caitlin Cruz has previously pointed out, shortly after Republicans in Congress introduced an eerily similar “Unborn Child Tax Credit” bill in February, fetal personhood is “the conservative endgame.” Why? “Eventually if a fetus is a person, you can legally control the reproductive process of others and subjugate those capable of pregnancy.”

This is becoming some serious off the rails religious shit, that won't stop at dictating what women can do with their bodies.

Texas Anti-Abortion Leader Openly Admits the Movement Is Coming for IVF

Ultimately, "we want those embryos who are created through the IVF process protected," said a senior legislative associate at Texas Right to Life.

jezebel.com

“Ultimately, we believe that all human life is valuable and deserves our legal protection from that beginning moment of fertilization, whether that occurs through normal means or through IVF. And so certainly we want those embryos who are created through the IVF process protected,” Rebecca Parma, senior legislative associate with Texas Right to Life, told a local Texas news outlet on Wednesday.

“But, I think it’s going to be a process,” she added. “I don’t think it’s something that’s going to happen next legislative session because obviously, IVF is something that is part of our culture and something that I think is pretty near and dear to a lot of people who desire families and desire children.”

Reproductive rights advocates have long suspected this was coming, because the push for fetal “personhood” laws in several states defines a fertilized egg as a person, and IVF clinics store, donate and discard embryos. The 19th News reported Thursday that couples are already moving their embryos across state lines to avoid potential legal complications:

With Christofacism on the rise, this is about going after people who don't fit in the imagined world of 1950s America. Say what you will about the 45th, but he tapped into some serious inner demented shit when his team came up with MAGA.

In case you aren't frightened enough, here's an opinion about the indicted Texas' AG's latest moves,

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www.washingtonpost.com

even exceptions aren't really enough.

 

[SuperMatt]

Wha?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1547370727699087366/

Demonstrating who the new "keystone cops" are, by going after everyone BUT the one truly responsible. Because investigating even a little bit to find out where the story actually came from was too difficult, and "inconvenient" to their new reality.

Now that they‘ve been proven wrong on the Ohio-to-Indiana abortion story, the racist pieces of trash are trying to change the topic to:

It’s all because of the “illegal aliens.”

Such people are pure racist xenophobes who voted for Donald Trump SPECIFICALLY because he called Mexicans rapists. These disgusting individuals are everywhere. Just look around and you will probably see one.

Anything to distract from the fact that THEY are taking away women’s rights, and threatening the lives of little kids with these abortion laws.

You can have 1 million white men commit rape and they never ask for white men to be taken out of the country, but if 1 undocumented worker from Central or South America does so, they blame all immigrants for it. Such brazen racism.

Some Republican politicians called a 10-year-old rape victim's story was a lie. Now, they're shifting the focus to immigration.

After an Ohio man was arrested for rape, some right-wing politicians are focusing in on his immigration status.

www.insider.com

And it’s not JUST the politicians who are doing it. Lots of their voters are happily jumping onto this train. What a load of xenophobic bigots. Why not just quit pretending and just wear your KKK robe around town with the hood off?

 

[SuperMatt]

Following up on @JayMysteri0 ’s post…

The healthcare of women in states with abortion bans is already getting worse.

Abortion laws spark profound changes in other medical care

The Supreme Court's decision to let states outlaw most abortions is having profound repercussions in reproductive medicine as well as in other areas of medical care.

apnews.com

Munoz said he faced an awful predicament with a recent patient who had started to miscarry and developed a dangerous womb infection. The fetus still had signs of a heartbeat, so an immediate abortion — the usual standard of care — would have been illegal under Texas law.

“We physically watched her get sicker and sicker and sicker” until the fetal heartbeat stopped the next day, “and then we could intervene,” he said. The patient developed complications, required surgery, lost multiple liters of blood and had to be put on a breathing machine “all because we were essentially 24 hours behind.’’

In a study published this month in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, doctors at two Texas hospitals cited the cases of 28 women less than 23 weeks pregnant who were treated for dangerous pregnancies. The doctors noted that all of the women had recommended abortions delayed by nine days because fetal heart activity was detected. Of those, nearly 60% developed severe complications — nearly double the number of complications experienced by patients in other states who had immediate therapeutic abortions. Of eight live births among the Texas cases, seven died within hours. The eighth, born at 24 weeks, had severe complications including brain bleeding, a heart defect, lung disease and intestinal and liver problems.

THIS is the true effect of abortion bans. The failed pregnancies above produced no healthy children, and the mothers also suffered needlessly. Plus, I cannot imagine how much more all this emergency medical care costs compared with an abortion once it’s determined the fetus isn’t viable. I’m thinking at least 10x more if not way past that.

If this is the result only a few weeks in, it is certain mothers will die because of these laws.

And it doesn’t just affect pregnant women:

Becky Schwarz, of Tysons Corner, Virginia, found herself unexpectedly thrust into the abortion controversy even though she has no plans to become pregnant.

The 27-year-old has lupus, an autoimmune disease that can cause the body to attack tissue surrounding joints and organs, leading to inflammation and often debilitating symptoms. For Schwarz, these include bone and joint pain, and difficulty standing for long periods of time.

She recently received a notice from her doctor saying she’d have to stop taking a medication that relieves her symptoms — at least while the office reviewed its policies for methotrexate in light of the Supreme Court ruling. That’s because the drug can cause miscarriages and theoretically could be used in an attempt to induce an abortion.

Whatever happened to the Republicans caterwauling about the need to be able to pick our own doctors and to keep medical decisions between the patient and doctor instead of getting Obamacare involved? It was all . THEY want to be the ones making healthcare decisions for women instead of their doctors.

 

[SuperMatt]

Those opposed to abortion rights insist that the unwanted babies will be adopted. But then you find out what they REALLY think about adoptive parents:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1548294384663220229/

 

[JayMysteri0]

Maybe I missed this posted earlier, but could someone explain this to me?

Pregnant Women Can't Get Divorced in Missouri

The state's divorce law has come under more scrutiny since the overturning of Roe v. Wade

www.riverfronttimes.com

December 2020 was a turbulent month for Danielle Drake, 32, of Lake of the Ozarks. On December 1, her husband said he was going out with a friend, but he lied. He was actually having an affair. She filed for a divorce less than a week later, on December 7.

Then, not long before Christmas, Drake found out she was pregnant.

Drake knew immediately she had to file a second, amended petition for divorce. She also knew the impact her pregnancy would have on the divorce proceedings. Drake, who earned a law degree from University of Missouri Kansas City has been practicing family law for two years, was well aware that in Missouri, women who are pregnant can't get a divorce.

Missouri law states that a petition for divorce must provide eight pieces of information, things like the residence of each party, the date of separation, and, notably, “whether the wife is pregnant.” If the answer is yes, Drake says, "What that practically does is put your case on hold."

There is a lot of disagreement online about whether pregnant Missouri women can get divorced. The RFT spoke to multiple lawyers who handle divorce proceedings and they all agreed that in Missouri a divorce can't be finalized if either the petitioner (the person who files for divorce) or the respondent (the other party in the divorce) is pregnant.

Dan Mizell, an attorney in Lebanon, Missouri, who has been practicing law since 1997, says that certain aspects of the divorce can proceed, but everything having to do with custody of the unborn child is frozen in place until birth or a pregnancy-ending event like a miscarriage. The court can issue temporary orders related to things like dividing up property, Mizell says. "But they can't do a final decree of divorce until she delivers the baby."

Drake says that this is true even in the case of a divorce that is completely uncontested. "If the couple is not fighting, and they're just saying, ‘Nope, she's gonna take the baby and 100 percent of the things’ they still cannot go before a judge and have that finalized until after there's a baby born," she says.

"It is a shock to some people," Mizell adds. "Sometimes it comes up at the very last minute, because the wife is usually asked to say under oath whether she is pregnant or not, which can be offensive at times, and also a bit ridiculous at others."

Drake also points out what seems to be a double standard in regards to how the state treats an unborn child in a divorce proceeding compared to in abortion law.

She says that the whole basis for Missouri putting the pause on a divorce proceeding until a child is born is because Missouri divorce law "does not see fetuses as humans."

"You can't have a court order that dictates visitation and child support for a child that doesn't exist," she says. "I have no mechanism as a lawyer to get that support going. There's nothing there because that's not a real person."

This aspect of Missouri divorce law has gotten more attention in the weeks since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, triggering a ban on abortion in Missouri except in cases of medical emergency. Though what is meant by medical emergency is still ambiguous.

Wha?!!

"This all goes back to the fact that we don't trust women," says Jess Piper, an outspoken advocate for reproductive rights who is running as a Democrat to be the state representative for the 1st District, in the rural northwest corner of the state. "I've heard actual reports of women who have been in domestic violence situations where their husbands withheld birth control from them, purposely creating a pregnancy so that she can't leave."

Piper adds that for some women, the new abortion law in Missouri will be just another obstacle in what can already be a fraught process of leaving a marriage.

Drake and Mizell both say the law is in need of updating.

Mizell says that even if the woman is pregnant by a man other than her husband, the divorce is still on hold.

Drake says that this outdated law is symptomatic of a much larger issue in family law, which is that the "large and clunky legal system" provides only a one-size-fits-all approach, but no two families are alike.

"It's very, very hard to write broad, sweeping laws with families, because every family is different. Every family has unique circumstances."

Drake's divorce is still working its way through the courts. Her son was born in August 2021, and she filed a third petition, this time affirming to the state she is in fact not pregnant.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1548508780157030401/

 

[fooferdoggie]

Those opposed to abortion rights insist that the unwanted babies will be adopted. But then you find out what they REALLY think about adoptive parents:

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1548294384663220229/

like trailer grease should be telling anyone about biblical marriage.

 

[SuperMatt]

Idaho will not allow abortions, even to save a mother’s life.

Idaho Republicans reject amendment allowing abortion to save woman's life

Delegates at the Idaho GOP convention approved changes to the party platform that criminalize abortions without exceptions for rape, incest or to save a mother's life.

www.newsweek.com

It hasn’t even been a MONTH since the court’s decision in Dobbs. The fascists are just getting started.

 

[Edd]

Didn’t want to make a separate thread but related to the topic:

Diablo Cody Meditates on ‘Juno’ and Its Critics 15 Years Later: “I Am Emphatically Pro-Choice”

The award-winning screenwriter looks back on her story about a teen's unplanned pregnancy in the wake of anti-abortion legislation and why she "stayed out of the discourse" around its anti-choice interpretation until now.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

In the article Diablo Cody says that she can see why some would view Juno as having an anti-choice message. I don’t get this at all. In the film Juno communicates that she simply doesn’t want an abortion and is willing to birth and give the child up for adoption.

To say that the film is anti-choice seems a willful misrepresentation to me. Drives me nuts and is not helpful for these discussions generally.

 

[Nycturne]

To say that the film is anti-choice seems a willful misrepresentation to me. Drives me nuts and is not helpful for these discussions generally.

Thanks for sharing. Yes, being pro-choice absolutely means that a valid choice is to keep the pregnancy or look at adoption.

The crux though is that I believe that choice needs to be free from coercion, which it isn’t in the film. So I can see how folks can latch onto that moment and suggest that the writer is giving credibility to the anti-abortion protesters. But I think the writer is also correct to write from her real experience, rather than ignore the fact that there is coercion happening.

 

[Edd]

Thanks for sharing. Yes, being pro-choice absolutely means that a valid choice is to keep the pregnancy or look at adoption.

The crux though is that I believe that choice needs to be free from coercion, which it isn’t in the film. So I can see how folks can latch onto that moment and suggest that the writer is giving credibility to the anti-abortion protesters. But I think the writer is also correct to write from her real experience, rather than ignore the fact that there is coercion happening.

What’s the coercion? The young girl outside the clinic protesting? If that’s it, then I don’t find it compelling.

 

[Nycturne]

I guess my memory of that film isn't so good. I went back and yeah, that's nothing like a real protest outside a clinic. I am not sure how you can draw a specific conclusion one way or another from that scene unless you were projecting onto it some sense that the writer was presenting the anti-abortion protesters in a favorable light intentionally.

 

[Deleted member 215]

It's interesting to note the outsize influence Catholics have on the U.S. government now. 5 of the 6 conservative justices are Catholic and one (Gorsuch) was baptized Catholic although his current Catholicism is debatable.

The pro-life movement has its origins in Catholicism. In its early days it was associated with pro-social welfare anti-war left-leaning Catholics (a demographic that still exists but is much diminished); Protestants were more hesitant to get on board with it, though it soon became an evangelical rallying cry.

Catholicism is also the preferred religion of the "new/alt right", along with Eastern Orthodoxy. Many American right-wing intellectuals and pundits have converted. Conservative Catholics have been having a bit of a crisis re. the ascension of the notably liberal (though by no means progressive) Pope Francis.

Just some stray observations, as one who was raised in the Catholic Church.

 

[Renzatic]

"

It hasn’t even been a MONTH since the court’s decision in Dobbs. The fascists are just getting started.

"We will never win this human rights issue, the greatest of our time, if we make allowances for the intentional killing of another human being."

So our only option is to allow an entirely preventable death to take place, killing both the mother and the child. That way, we can say God did it.

 

[SuperMatt]

It's interesting to note the outsize influence Catholics have on the U.S. government now. 5 of the 6 conservative justices are Catholic and one (Gorsuch) was baptized Catholic although his current Catholicism is debatable.

The pro-life movement has its origins in Catholicism. In its early days it was associated with pro-social welfare anti-war left-leaning Catholics (a demographic that still exists but is much diminished); Protestants were more hesitant to get on board with it, though it soon became an evangelical rallying cry.

Catholicism is also the preferred religion of the "new/alt right", along with Eastern Orthodoxy. Many American right-wing intellectuals and pundits have converted. Conservative Catholics have been having a bit of a crisis re. the ascension of the notably liberal (though by no means progressive) Pope Francis.

Just some stray observations, as one who was raised in the Catholic Church.

The evangelicals USED TO say that Catholics were not Christians at all. Heck, people attacked Kennedy for being a Catholic. And you can find Jack Chick tracts comparing the Pope to the Devil.

Then the evangelical church got more involved in politics, and abortion became the wedge issue. Suddenly they forgot all about Catholics being evil heretics.

 

[Eric]

Trump isn't President representing the county on an international stage.

He doesn't need to be, installing the SCOTUS justices was enough to screw the country for a generation. Not that I even blame him for it, it just all happened under his watch and he got them through, as to where Democratic leaders are like scared little rats afraid to offend anyone so they regularly get stomped by Republicans.

 

[Herdfan]

He doesn't need to be, installing the SCOTUS justices was enough to screw the country for a generation. Not that I even blame him for it, it just all happened under his watch and he got them through, as to where Democratic leaders are like scared little rats afraid to offend anyone so they regularly get stomped by Republicans.

I see it the opposite way. Trump had appeal because he was willing to fight back (sadly he was also willing to fight forward) which was missing with the last 2 GOP Presidential candidates. The GOP was so afraid of the press they weren't willing to fight figuring it would end up worse for them.

In RvW news, a WV Circuit Judge has barred the state from enforcing its abortion laws that date back to before it was a state. How long that lasts is up for conjecture.

 

[Eric]

I see it the opposite way. Trump had appeal because he was willing to fight back (sadly he was also willing to fight forward) which was missing with the last 2 GOP Presidential candidates. The GOP was so afraid of the press they weren't willing to fight figuring it would end up worse for them.

In RvW news, a WV Circuit Judge has barred the state from enforcing its abortion laws that date back to before it was a state. How long that lasts is up for conjecture.

Well, the party as a whole has always done a better job at sticking together to get things passed, whether we agree with them or not, I mean even going back to GW and the war they collectively said F you to anyone and did what they thought was right. Democrats just don't have it in them to do that and I think a lot of people are pretty disenfranchised with them at this point.

 

[Eric]

This is sad, man I just can't believe all Republicans are on board with these stringent laws. The fetus was dead FFS.

Video: Texas woman speaks out after being forced to carry her dead fetus for 2 weeks | CNN

The same surgical procedure that is used to treat a miscarriage is also used for terminating pregnancies. New Texas anti-abortion laws have doctors nervous to perform procedures for miscarriages, forcing this woman to carry her dead fetus in her womb for two weeks. CNN's Elizabeth Cohen has more.

www.cnn.com

 

[mollyc]

This is sad, man I just can't believe all Republicans are on board with these stringent laws. The fetus was dead FFS.

Video: Texas woman speaks out after being forced to carry her dead fetus for 2 weeks | CNN

The same surgical procedure that is used to treat a miscarriage is also used for terminating pregnancies. New Texas anti-abortion laws have doctors nervous to perform procedures for miscarriages, forcing this woman to carry her dead fetus in her womb for two weeks. CNN's Elizabeth Cohen has more.

www.cnn.com

definitely not all republicans feel this way.

 

[Herdfan]

definitely not all republicans feel this way.

No we don't. And I think the doctor was just afraid to do anything, not that the law prevented it.