The assailant who attacked Paul Pelosi was searching for Nancy

AG_PhamD

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Some GOP officials and even candidates are in disagreement over whether their base is best off voting in person or using the convenience of mail-in or drop-off voting options. Starting to wonder if Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot or if they just like chaos in the aftermath of election day.
Trump very possibly could have won GA had he not told everyone not to use mail in voting.

Out of 46 presidents, we’ve had 4 assassinations that were successful, and another 2 attempts that put a bullet in the target. Plus a handful more attempts where the perpetrator got close enough to do the deed, but either missed (and others have been killed in these cases), or had their weapon fail at the critical moment. These acts have been done despite security being available, and the president getting more security than speaker of the house would.

And I’d imagine the bulk of Speaker Pelosi’s security would have been in DC at the time of this incident… with Speaker Pelosi.

I’m not sure it’s entirely fair to compare the level of security and healthcare 100+ years ago to the modern day. Even Kennedy’s security precautions where pretty lax. You also have to wonder of the two Presidents wounded (Roosevelt and Regan), how many attempts were prevented?

Protecting the spouse and children of the speaker seems like a reasonable measure. It’s not hard to foresee a perpetrator using vulnerable family members as leverage against the speaker.
 

Herdfan

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I think at the very least the top leaders in both chambers plus the SCOTUS should have some level of Secret Service protection. Not what the President gets, but some.

Too many nutjobs out there.
 

Eric

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I think at the very least the top leaders in both chambers plus the SCOTUS should have some level of Secret Service protection. Not what the President gets, but some.

Too many nutjobs out there.
I suppose that's as close to sympathizing with a human being who was bashed in the head with a hammer as we'll get.

It's worth noting that you've been far more outraged over shit about Hunter Biden's laptop that was never proven. Seriously, if one can't even acknowledge just how heinous this brutal attack is rather than downplaying it as one side or the other then I don't even know how to properly respond to that. It's sad how we're losing our humanity over a political position.
 
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mac_in_tosh

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This is a direct result of Trump's rhetoric - constantly demeaning Peolosi, making her out to be a monster who is destroying the country and of course leading a "witch hunt" against him. Trump needs to be stopped. What is Garland waiting for? Yes, it's a big precedent indicting an ex-president but Trump is unique in the number and nature of crimes committed and still being committed as there are top secret documents unaccounted for. We don't need another reluctant prosector like Mueller. Indict the guy and if it leads to violence the level would probably be less than what we might face if Trump is allowed to continue spewing his hate and especially if he runs for re-election because we know that if he lost he would claim the election was rigged and this would start all over again. It's just inconceivable that one pathological man is allowed to continue to cause so much damage to the nation.
 

AG_PhamD

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As predicted, it sounds like this guy was not mentally well. It sounds like he suffered some form of psychotic disorder. He’s reported as not being in touch with reality, having claimed to speak to angles, being a megalomaniac, etc. He is reported as being “dangerous” and justified harm with biblical verses. It sounds like he was estranged from family and friends due to his erratic behavior.

He was at one point homeless and living out of a storage unit (and I would assume likely still homeless). He reportedly had a serious drug problem, which potentially could exacerbate his disconnect with reality.

He held a lot of irrational views, like Jesus is the antichrist and that COVID vaccines are specifically designed to kill people. He was apparently a “nudist activist”, which apparently means he protested laws requiring clothes. He spoke about how women should be banned from society and have their children taken away. He claims “Hitler did nothing wrong” and 9/11 was an inside job. Etc.

Fox claims he is in the country illegally and has a history of felonies, including elder abuse. I don’t yet see this confirmed anywhere else though.

Anyways, first and foremost I think it’s important to recognize this man’s beliefs are by no means a mainstream opinion. It does highlight the danger of how political hyperbole and conspiracy theories radicalize people, particularly mentally ill individuals. When a tenuous grip on reality and psychotic paranoia mixes with conspiracy theory, the conspiracies become all the more real.

Conspiracy theories are also attractive to those suffering psychologically and socially because they provide feelings of superiority, a community to belong to, and thus raise self esteem. Conspiracies provide a degree of comfort by providing an scapegoat for bad things that happen, rather than accepting the uncomfortable fact that we cannot control the world.

It is very common to see strong conspiratorial beliefs in psychotic individuals. This is entirely related to why homeless people attack Hasidic Jews and why many Asians were attacked when COVID started.

This also highlights the completely deficient mental healthcare access and policy in our country. Allowing mentally ill people to be homeless and untreated is NOT humane. This issue is directly related to the crime problem we’re facing. This population deserves a safe environment and to receive treatment. And the public deserves to be safe in their communities.

It’s rather interesting how one case highlights so many societal ills at once.
 

Herdfan

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I suppose that's as close to sympathizing with a human being who was bashed in the head with a hammer as we'll get.

It's worth noting that you've been far more outraged over shit about Hunter Biden's laptop that was never proven. Seriously, if one can't even acknowledge just how heinous this brutal attack is rather than downplaying it as one side or the other then I don't even know how to properly respond to that. It's sad how we're losing our humanity over a political position.

Oh this was horrible. Absolutely horrible. No excuse even if the guy is a RW MAGA Trumper.

Just saying they need some level of ongoing protection.
 

GermanSuplex

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Has Trump sent his condemnations out, or is he secretly reveling in this and calling it a consequence of a “rigged and stolen election”?

As for Republicans saying Dems are “dismantling our democracy”, that’s really par for the course in todays politics. Democrats say this kind of stuff all the time too. I think it’s more often than not completely hyperbolic and inappropriate language whoever is using it. Polling shows overwhelmingly both parties think the other is “destroying” the country. I suppose it just depends on what you think the country is and your vision for it.

What are democrats supposed to say when one side wants to overturn the results of a free and fair election and install their own leader?

Mitch McConnell showing Republicans how to handle this with tact and class. We don't have to agree to show a little mutual respect.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1586017719912210440/

Very true, but McConnell is also a smart guy, and maybe if he’d be willing to have an iota of integrity and honesty about his party’s total subservience to Trump and Trumpism, maybe we could avoid these incidents and his after the fact statements would be totally unnecessary.
 
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Huntn

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I will say this, while Trump didn’t tell people to raid the capitol, he promoted a conspiracy that incited a riot. He should have known and was told was untrue, and therefore bears responsibility. Trump should have been booted from office.

Also bearing responsibility are all of those that perpetuated these claims despite the evidence and those that continue the claims to this day.

As for Republicans saying Dems are “dismantling our democracy”, that’s really par for the course in todays politics. Democrats say this kind of stuff all the time too. I think it’s more often than not completely hyperbolic and inappropriate language whoever is using it. Polling shows overwhelmingly both parties think the other is “destroying” the country. I suppose it just depends on what you think the country is and your vision for it.

But I would be remiss to say the left is not immune to violence. The Summer of 2020 had an incredible amount of destruction and people injured due to BLM protest-adjacent riots. Much private property (owned by innocent individuals and businesses) and a number of governement buildings (including court houses) were damaged or destroyed. Some democrat politicians made statements that could be interpreted as subtly perpetuating the violence, some promoted charities to bail out arrested protesters, but perhaps most troubling of all was the overwhelming silence when it came to condemning violence from democrat leaders.

I’m all for people utilizing their first amendment rights as the majority of people did involved in BLM protests. But destroying innocent peoples property and the economic future of your community is completely unacceptable.

This isn’t to say the issues on either side are the same, they’re generally not. But ignoring or rationalizing the actions of one side while condemning the other only drives the division and extremism deeper.

In my opinion is no place for political violence and both sides need to learn to work together to create a more harmonized country. The reality is both sides tribalism is destroying the country the fastest.

“while Trump didn’t tell people to raid the capitol, he promoted a conspiracy that incited a riot.”

He went farther than that. Trump forces planned the assault or if you prefer, they conferred with the Proud Boys, who were at the Capitol equipped for the event, Trump told the Secret Service not to worry about the armed men in the crowd, it is alleged (Link) insurrectionists were given private reconnaissance Capitol tours, and words were used, Trump‘s speciality said in a manner to convey meaning, but maintain plausible deniability.

Trump: “If you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.” Link
Giuliani: “Let’s have trial by combat.” Link
Eric Trump: Trump ‘Save America’ Rally – Don Jr warns GOPers who certify Biden ‘this isn’t their party’ and ‘we’re coming for you’ Link

Does any of this infer peaceful actions? Does fight like hell infer peacefully protesting with vigor? Nope… Hey people, your country has been stolen, this was the “Stop The Steal” March, just what should a patriotic citizen be expected to do? :unsure: First off, don’t listen to the King of Political Manipulation for the gullible.
 
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fooferdoggie

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Very true, but McConnell is also a smart guy, and maybe if he’d be willing to have an iota of integrity and honesty about his party’s total subservience to Trump and Trumpism, maybe we could avoid these incidents and his after the fact statements would be totally unnecessary.
well till he changes his mind to benefit himself.
 

Renzatic

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He held a lot of irrational views, like Jesus is the antichrist and that COVID vaccines are specifically designed to kill people. He was apparently a “nudist activist”, which apparently means he protested laws requiring clothes. He spoke about how women should be banned from society and have their children taken away. He claims “Hitler did nothing wrong” and 9/11 was an inside job. Etc.

That sounds about like every 3rd person you run across on Facebook these days.
 

Yoused

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In response to the attack, Greene tweeted that "violence and crime are rampant in Joe Biden's America," adding that "it shouldn't happen to me." She noted that she was swatted multiple times and has received death threats on a daily basis.

Me! It's about Me!
 

fooferdoggie

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In response to the attack, Greene tweeted that "violence and crime are rampant in Joe Biden's America," adding that "it shouldn't happen to me." She noted that she was swatted multiple times and has received death threats on a daily basis.

Me! It's about Me!
right I am sure she is swatted all the time. well maybe in a way she likes?
 

lizkat

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Lest we forget...

internet is forever, Kevin.jpg
 

Eric

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In response to the attack, Greene tweeted that "violence and crime are rampant in Joe Biden's America," adding that "it shouldn't happen to me." She noted that she was swatted multiple times and has received death threats on a daily basis.

Me! It's about Me!
I get she’s going to politicize it but the fact that people are doing this to her is wrong in every level. It takes away finite resources and puts her in serious danger. Hope they bust these people.
 

fooferdoggie

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I get she’s going to politicize it but the fact that people are doing this to her is wrong in every level. It takes away finite resources and puts her in serious danger. Hope they bust these people.
Don't count on her telling the truth. she tries to follow in trumps shoes tell no truth. but democrats have been getting hit so hard and trump and his minions stoke the fires.
 

lizkat

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Why is there so much hate for her to the point of animalistic bloodthirst?
It's mostly Republicans who loathe Pelosi, and it's because she has been so effective for so long.

Sure, some Democrats also don't like her, but a lot of that is envy or thinking it's their turn or they could do it better, easy to say since they don't have to prove it yet...

She's a powerful woman in the public arena. She will not shut up and sit down. She knows how the House works, how the Senate works, how the White House works and she's a buzz saw with pearls and nice clothes and a polite way of saying "I'm not done talking yet." She has a thick skin. She doesn't whine, she gets even.

She became the first female Speaker of the House, which position is third in the line of succession in the US presidency. A prolific party fundraiser. A cheerleader in the best sense of the word, i.e. proving that good legislation is never dead in the water because it can be revived in a following term.

She has been an effective party leader --liberal but shrewd and pragmatic-- with consummate skills in vote-counting, herding cats, knowing when to give a congresscritter a waiver on a tough vote, and when to haul one in for a little chat.

On her own votes in Congress she has raised plenty hackles amongst Republicans, voting in favor of the Civil Rights Restoration Act of 1987 and to override Reagan;s veto of it. She voted against the war in Iraq. She supports LGBT rights, voted against the Defense of Marriage Act, and worked on increasing Aids research funding. She voted against displaying the Ten Commandments in public buildings, including schools. She favored the increase in education spending that was incorporated in the No Child Left Behind Act.

She has been a architect of major legislation and driver of getting it passed ever since the 1980s: Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, Affordable Care Act, Wall Street reform and Consumer Protection Act, repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell Act, American Clean Energy and Security Act (blocked by the Senate but it sent a message that the USA is serious about renewables, and it has served to underwrite successive efforts to overcome the petrol lobby for two decades and counting).

Pelosi is a devout Roman Catholic AND she understands that the USA does not permit establishment of a state religion, and so she has helped shepherd legislation through Congress that Americans largely favor even when the Church opposes it.

She believes in the idea of a common good, in public service, in equality of opportunity, in caring for US veterans, the elderly, disabled, kids mired in poverty... and gets legislation passed to prove it.

So on balance who'd be surprised if the Republicans viscerally loathe her? Everything she has ever helped convince the House of Representatives to pass is something the GOP would like to roll back.
 
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