The Obvious Voting-Rights Solution That No Democrat Will Propose

Chew Toy McCoy

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I think it’s interesting that it says no party actually likes the idea. Like with immigration, police reform, and gun control, they’d rather do nothing and save it as an excuse to fire up their base.
 

Herdfan

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I don't really see a difference between a state issued DL/ID and a "National ID". Any Federal Law Enforcement Agency can pull up your state DL in seconds, so why would people need to carry a second ID? I do find it amusing the Dems are now in favor of ID, but only after polling showed it popular, even among minorities. *

And you absolutely hit the nail on the head. If a problem, whatever it is, gets solved, they can no longer run on it.

* And for the record, I am all in favor of people getting free ID's. If you don't need it to drive, then it's free. They can even have mobile vans go around for people who can't get out.
 

SuperMatt

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I think it’s interesting that it says no party actually likes the idea. Like with immigration, police reform, and gun control, they’d rather do nothing and save it as an excuse to fire up their base.
So, individual states can require you to have ID to vote, but the same people who support that for some reason oppose a federal ID? It’s almost as if the only reason for the state ID for voting is so they can make it as difficult as possibly for certain people to vote based on restricting what types of state IDs count for voting…. (gun permit yes, state college ID no)

But surely they wouldn’t be doing that …. After all, Chief Justice Roberts threw out the voting rights act because he knows all those good people in the southern states aren’t racist anymore!
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I don't really see a difference between a state issued DL/ID and a "National ID". Any Federal Law Enforcement Agency can pull up your state DL in seconds, so why would people need to carry a second ID? I do find it amusing the Dems are now in favor of ID, but only after polling showed it popular, even among minorities. *

And you absolutely hit the nail on the head. If a problem, whatever it is, gets solved, they can no longer run on it.

* And for the record, I am all in favor of people getting free ID's. If you don't need it to drive, then it's free. They can even have mobile vans go around for people who can't get out.

As far as behind closed door strategists go…

The right doesn’t really want it because it would disprove the rampant voting fraud they lean into.

The left doesn’t want it (and provided for free) because it would partially prove a lot of their base is just too lazy/uninspired to vote.

So here we are.
 

Herdfan

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As far as behind closed door strategists go…

The right doesn’t really want it because it would disprove the rampant voting fraud they lean into.

The left doesn’t want it (and provided for free) because it would partially prove a lot of their base is just too lazy/uninspired to vote.

So here we are.

Then they need to find a way to inspire their base to vote. Although 81M votes for Biden (which is 12M more than Obama in 2008 who was running to be the first Black President and an inspirational orator) seems pretty inspired.

As for rampant voting fraud being disproved, I say let's disprove it every election. The problem is similar in that the Dems don't really want any serious investigations just in case it is real and the right doesn't because it might prove it isn't. Both just use it to beat on each other with.
 

SuperMatt

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As for rampant voting fraud being disproved, I say let's disprove it every election.
How do you intend to “disprove” it every election?

Also, shouldn’t it be the job of the one making accusations of fraud to prove the crime? This is absolutely not how our system works. Just because a bunch of right-wing numb-nuts scream “MUH FRAUD!U!@!!1!” doesn’t mean you pander to them. We had about a million accusations of fraud in 2020, none of which panned out.

If Trump won, the GOP wouldn’t give a shit about voting fraud. They certainly don’t mention the topic when they win.

More idiotic distractions. What a pathetic party the GOP is. They stand for nothing, and just cry like babies when they lose elections... and now everybody needs to “disprove” fraud in Every. Single. Election....? WTF? This is a terrible idea.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Then they need to find a way to inspire their base to vote. Although 81M votes for Biden (which is 12M more than Obama in 2008 who was running to be the first Black President and an inspirational orator) seems pretty inspired.

As for rampant voting fraud being disproved, I say let's disprove it every election. The problem is similar in that the Dems don't really want any serious investigations just in case it is real and the right doesn't because it might prove it isn't. Both just use it to beat on each other with.

I think Trump was the big motivator in 2020. We’ll see in 2022 if they think that threat (or what it spawned) is all behind us.

I don’t know what the Democrats are going to sell but I live in a state where it largely doesn’t matter.
 

Herdfan

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How do you intend to “disprove” it every election?

By simply requiring an ID. Which is supported by 80% of Americans including a majority of African-Americans.

Sorry you are on the wrong side of this.
 

SuperMatt

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By simply requiring an ID. Which is supported by 80% of Americans including a majority of African-Americans.

Sorry you are on the wrong side of this.
Nope, you are wrong. 36 states already require an ID. And guess what? Many of them are the ones insisting that MUH FRAUD happened. It’s a steaming pile of 🐂💩.

Cornell university studied it and found 31 cases of fraud among 1 billion votes.

It is a lie that voter fraud is affecting elections at all. If you believe it, you are either lying yourself or incredibly stupid to believe the lies being fed to you, in opposition to all recorded facts.


I am absolutely on the right side of this. Those restricting the right to vote in the name of “voter fraud” are stealing rights from their fellow Americans for no good reason.
 

Herdfan

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Nope, you are wrong. 36 states already require an ID. And guess what? Many of them are the ones insisting that MUH FRAUD happened. It’s a steaming pile of 🐂💩.



I am absolutely on the right side of this. Those restricting the right to vote in the name of “voter fraud” are stealing rights from their fellow Americans for no good reason.

Then we only have 14 to go. :)

I don't want to restrict anyone's ability to vote. Not a single eligible person.

I won't say there has been fraud, I think there is a potential for fraud. There is a difference.
 

SuperMatt

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Then we only have 14 to go. :)

I don't want to restrict anyone's ability to vote. Not a single eligible person.

I won't say there has been fraud, I think there is a potential for fraud. There is a difference.
Bullshit.

Everybody in the GOP leadership knows it‘s bullshit. They are on record stating the reason for these laws is to reduce Democratic votes.

Of course, with all the backlash to the laws, many states have made it far easier to get an ID than before… so I guess that is good?

Anybody that believes the voter ID laws have anything whatsoever to do with voter fraud is a complete rube.
 

Huntn

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In the digital age, I have no issue with an easily accesible ID. What irritates me is that some States like Texas dumped the use of a voter registration card alone based on a bullshit made up issue (fraud) because they really thought it would hurt the other side‘s turnout, :mad:
 

Herdfan

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Bullshit.

Everybody in the GOP leadership knows it‘s bullshit. They are on record stating the reason for these laws is to reduce Democratic votes.

Of course, with all the backlash to the laws, many states have made it far easier to get an ID than before… so I guess that is good?

Anybody that believes the voter ID laws have anything whatsoever to do with voter fraud is a complete rube.

Maybe. But I am not in the GOP leadership. So that must mean the 80% of Americans that support ID to vote are rubes. Guess this place is a statistical anomaly.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Maybe. But I am not in the GOP leadership. So that must mean the 80% of Americans that support ID to vote are rubes. Guess this place is a statistical anomaly.

But don’t you think it’s telling that only red states and slightly red leaning purple states are the ones piling on panicked voting law shell games?

After decades of already saying this behind closed doors, Trump and several prominent Republicans have publicly said when more people vote Republicans are less likely to win. “Rampant voter fraud” is just a front for support in their effort to have less people voting. Even something that seems innocuous like closing polls 1 hour earlier has the desired effect of having fewer people voting.
 

SuperMatt

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Maybe. But I am not in the GOP leadership. So that must mean the 80% of Americans that support ID to vote are rubes. Guess this place is a statistical anomaly.
What was the rate of voter fraud in states with Voter ID laws before those laws and after?

Once you find that answer, you will see that you’ve been fooled…. If you ever believed it to begin with.
 

JayMysteri0

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Nope, you are wrong. 36 states already require an ID. And guess what? Many of them are the ones insisting that MUH FRAUD happened. It’s a steaming pile of 🐂💩.

Cornell university studied it and found 31 cases of fraud among 1 billion votes.

It is a lie that voter fraud is affecting elections at all. If you believe it, you are either lying yourself or incredibly stupid to believe the lies being fed to you, in opposition to all recorded facts.


I am absolutely on the right side of this. Those restricting the right to vote in the name of “voter fraud” are stealing rights from their fellow Americans for no good reason.
I think for future cases where someone makes the claim of voter fraud, without providing evidence at the time, MOTIVE helps determine whether or not any investigation goes further.

Meaning if the claimant only believes fraud occurred in races where the candidate they didn't care for won, but had no issues with races in the same state where candidates they did care for won... motive would indicate it's something like a nuisance case.

As we are already seeing in states where the 'r's were allowed to act on their whims on voter fraud, things have been compromised leading to voting equipment no longer usable, requiring states to pay millions of dollars unnecessarily for new voting equipment. For what? For the next election that one side doesn't like the results, and they can start another ninja clown show?

Also cost & financial burden & penalty have to be factored & instituted on individuals. If one can't provide instances of fraud in a time period, that side needs to pay up to the state for the wasted efforts & resources. Until such a thing, nothing will stop a party from doing this over & over, only on specific instances.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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I think for future cases where someone makes the claim of voter fraud, without providing evidence at the time, MOTIVE helps determine whether or not any investigation goes further.

Meaning if the claimant only believes fraud occurred in races where the candidate they didn't care for won, but had no issues with races in the same state where candidates they did care for won... motive would indicate it's something like a nuisance case.

As we are already seeing in states where the 'r's were allowed to act on their whims on voter fraud, things have been compromised leading to voting equipment no longer usable, requiring states to pay millions of dollars unnecessarily for new voting equipment. For what? For the next election that one side doesn't like the results, and they can start another ninja clown show?

Also cost & financial burden & penalty have to be factored & instituted on individuals. If one can't provide instances of fraud in a time period, that side needs to pay up to the state for the wasted efforts & resources. Until such a thing, nothing will stop a party from doing this over & over, only on specific instances.

Speaking of which, whatever happened with that Maricopa County AZ vote audit? Last I heard the auditors moved everything to some hidden mountain fortress.
 

SuperMatt

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Another thing to keep in mind about voter ID laws.

Before the pandemic, Republicans were ok with absentee voters NOT needing an ID. After all, most absentee voters were old white people, who tend to vote for the GOP.

From a 2014 Frontline story:

A FRONTLINE analysis of voting laws nationwide found that only six of the 31 states that require ID at the polls apply those standards to absentee voters, who are generally whiter and older than in-person voters. And two states with strict photo ID policies for in-person voters — Rhode Island and Georgia — have recently passed bills that allow anyone to mail in a ballot.

Mark Obenshain, a Republican Virginia state senator who was the primary sponsor of his state’s voter ID law, said that lawmakers tried to balance improving security with maintaining access to the ballot for elderly and disabled people.

“There are good arguments that there are gaps with absentee ballots,” he said. “But the issue is, how can we close that gap without unduly burdening the right to vote?” Obenshain said that these voters might not have access to a scanner or Xerox machine to make a copy of their ID.

And, because absentee ballots must be sent to a voter’s registered address, they are still relatively secure, Obenshain said. “It doesn’t warrant making the voters jump through unnecessary hoops.”
When it came to old white people voting, they didn’t want to burden them. However, after the pandemic, many younger voters and voters of color voted by mail. SUDDENLY we need ID for mail-in votes. I guess the GOP legislators are ok with burdening people more likely to vote against them.

This is just another piece of evidence that these laws have absolutely nothing to do with fraud, and everything to do with making it hard for SOME people to vote.

I believe the Voter ID laws are losing their potency to block voters as Democrats work harder to get all their voters the proper IDs, and Republicans have folded slightly to pressure to make IDs easier to get. So now Republicans are reducing drop boxes in urban areas, making it harder to request absentee ballots, reducing early voting hours and locations, punishing people who offer water to people waiting in long lines, etc. The most worrisome thing they’re doing is allowing the partisan legislature to basically overturn the results in any precinct.

NONE of those things do anything to prevent fraud. As seen in prior posts in this thread, disgruntled or overly partisan government workers tampering with voting machines seem like a much more likely fraud problem. And the “anti-fraud“ laws put forward by the GOP do nothing about that.
 

JayMysteri0

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Speaking of which, whatever happened with that Maricopa County AZ vote audit? Last I heard the auditors moved everything to some hidden mountain fortress.
They promised results earlier, and suddenly little more than a week delayed giving those results.

This was after they trimmed their report down to being a supposed partial report, to being pared down to an email being acceptable to republicans.
 

SuperMatt

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Speaking of which, whatever happened with that Maricopa County AZ vote audit? Last I heard the auditors moved everything to some hidden mountain fortress.
Most of the cyber ninjas caught COVID-19. They are serious about staying on brand…

 
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