Which will voters remember more in 2024?

[SuperMatt]

I feel like history is going to look back at this time as when Democrats nice guyed themselves into irrelevancy. They were hugging babies while getting crushed legislatively going all the way back to Clinton.

Doubtful. The Dems in the House had ZERO problem passing aggressive legislation. This is squarely on the shoulders of the 2-person contrarian caucus in the Senate.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

The Dems in the House had ZERO problem passing aggressive legislation.

Like what? 3 strikes laws? Deregulating the telecom industry which directly gave us Fox News and the likes? Bailing out the banks and Wall St? The guaranteed payday for the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries that is the ACA? Passing the Republican agenda but doing it with a hug and a smile instead of a middle finger?

Since you seem the be heavy on racism from the right, I wish I could find the video or remember who it was, but there was some black activist who said "Thank God the racist is out of the white house?!? WTF are you talking about??" and then went into a long rant about all the racist legislation that Biden has been behind in his long political career. I think there is a misperception, especially with white people, that saying racist things is the absolute top worst thing in racism.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

For the BIG package yes. For the smaller $1.5T package, the Squad is the problem.

Would love to see more parties. At least one big one where the middle 60% could tell the 20% on both the fringes to go pound sand.

I agree about the extremes and we need more parties, but I feel a moderate heavy government would be just a more polite version of gridlock. “We would like to do this if we may” “We respectfully decline to let you do so.” Moderates probably live where the status quo has worked out just fine for them, and just like the far right doesn’t want to hear about the ugly parts of our history, moderates don’t want to hear about the struggles of people in current times. “It’s all their fault.” is the motto. A moderate government would just sit around all day approving national landmarks.

 

[SuperMatt]

Like what?

John Lewis voting rights act
DC Statehood
$3.5 trillion infrastructure plan, with child care, 12 weeks paid family leave, etc.
For the People act

Those are from this year, and are the things many voters expected Democrats to pass. Manchin and Sinema are going against this highly popular agenda, and will likely not even try to run again. They will take their corporate money and float away on their yachts.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

John Lewis voting rights act
DC Statehood
$3.5 trillion infrastructure plan, with child care, 12 weeks paid family leave, etc.
For the People act

Those are from this year, and are the things many voters expected Democrats to pass. Manchin and Sinema are going against this highly popular agenda, and will likely not even try to run again. They will take their corporate money and float away on their yachts.

None of those passed and Democrats' legislative failures didn't just start this year. Trump wasn't the first President of the United States.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Paid family leave is now off the bill. So much winning.

 

[ronntaylor]

Dem failures ain't just this early stage of the Biden-Harris administration. It's not the backlash against Obama. And as much as I hate the Clinton's and their DLC/Blue-dog loving ways, it's even older than their Bullshit. Hell, Carter and LBJ planted the seeds in many respects.

We have to focus on what is needed now, but we have to also look back at how we got here to stop the mistakes and learn from them. Again, the Dems need to fight hard and stop bending over for the GOP and mislabeled "moderate" Dems. I wish Biden would just say fuck it all and let the bills die and force both parties hands till real relief is passed. The Dems are compromising too much for absolutely nothing in return.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Dem failures ain't just this early stage of the Biden-Harris administration. It's not the backlash against Obama. And as much as I hate the Clinton's and their DLC/Blue-dog loving ways, it's even older than their Bullshit. Hell, Carter and LBJ planted the seeds in many respects.

We have to focus on what is needed now, but we have to also look back at how we got here to stop the mistakes and learn from them. Again, the Dems need to fight hard and stop bending over for the GOP and mislabeled "moderate" Dems. I wish Biden would just say fuck it all and let the bills die and force both parties hands till real relief is passed. The Dems are compromising too much for absolutely nothing in return.

I agree it goes back further, but I put a sharp decline at Clinton because that’s when the Democrats decided that they should also go after the big corporate money that was usually reserved for Republicans. That’s when they lost the script and started serving the same masters. The only thing that kept it from being more obvious is they still used (use?) the same rhetoric they used to ideologically separate them from Republicans and then just hoped nobody would notice the passed policy shifts, and unfortunately too many people didn’t notice. Actually, non-white Americans probably did notice, but they're mostly only heard when white people decide to make them their short lived pet project.

 

[SuperMatt]

None of those passed and Democrats' legislative failures didn't just start this year. Trump wasn't the first President of the United States.

My point which you replied to was that the House, with the participation of “The Squad” DID pass these bills. It is the Senate, specifically because of Manchin and Sinema, that refused to pass them through their chamber.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

My point which you replied to was that the House, with the participation of “The Squad” DID pass these bills. It is the Senate, specifically because of Manchin and Sinema, that refused to pass them through their chamber.

At the end of the day an unpassed bill is an unpassed bill. Like I said, many people are tired of the "we tried" party, and if we're going to be honest, many times the "we tried" ends as soon as the election campaign is over.

It's like asking for a raise for years, and year after year your boss says "Sorry, but I tried". Are you really going to give a shit about the reason why you haven't been getting a raise for years? At some point you need to blame yourself for staying with that company.

While we're at it, how's that police reform coming along?

 

[SuperMatt]

At the end of the day an unpassed bill is an unpassed bill. Like I said, many people are tired of the "we tried" party, and if we're going to be honest, many times the "we tried" ends as soon as the election campaign is over.

It's like asking for a raise for years, and year after year your boss says "Sorry, but I tried". Are you really going to give a shit about the reason why you haven't been getting a raise for years? At some point you need to blame yourself for staying with that company.

While we're at it, how's that police reform coming along?

My point is: blame the ones responsible, which are not “The Squad” - they are the OPPOSITE of the problem. It is the so-called centrists such as Manchin and Sinema that are damaging the party (and the nation IMHO).

 

[SuperMatt]

While we're at it, how's that police reform coming along?

Why don’t you ask Tim Scott? Everybody agreed HE should lead the team to create the bill, remember? The GOP insisted that it be a bipartisan effort, and that Tim would make it happen? He intentionally torpedoed it, claiming that he HAD to because Cory Booker wanted to defund the police... which is completely false. In reality, the GOP never wanted to do anything to reform the police, and it was all a delay tactic. Shame on them.

Cory Booker disputes Tim Scott's claim Democrats wanted to defund police in reform bill

"This is a bill that would have had millions of dollars for police departments ... millions of dollars more, additional dollars," the New Jersey Democrat said.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

My point is: blame the ones responsible, which are not “The Squad” - they are the OPPOSITE of the problem. It is the so-called centrists such as Manchin and Sinema that are damaging the party (and the nation IMHO).

And my point is a lot of voters aren’t going to care who or what the reason for it is. They didn’t get what they wanted….again, and this is far from the first time.

I’m in the camp that believes if Democrats lose control of Congress in 2022 then I hope people have a nice hobby they can enjoy while democracy collapses around them. And if Republicans maintain control of Congress then it probably doesn’t matter much who the President in 2024 is either.

 

[Herdfan]

My point which you replied to was that the House, with the participation of “The Squad” DID pass these bills. It is the Senate, specifically because of Manchin and Sinema, that refused to pass them through their chamber.

This is not the first time the House has passed one Bill and the Senate another. But you seem intent on blaming the Senate for not passing the House Bill while giving the House progressives a pass for not wanting to pass the Senate Bill. Or completely ignoring that a Senate Bill even exists because it doesn't go as far as you want it to go.

You stated in an earlier post that if the smaller Bill gets passed, then the bigger portion is dead. That is probably correct. The solution is simple: win 2 more Senate seats in a year and hold the House and then pass the rest then. That is how the process is supposed to work. Make your case to the voters and get your candidates elected. One more year won't matter in the big picture.

I agree it goes back further, but I put a sharp decline at Clinton because that’s when the Democrats decided that they should also go after the big corporate money that was usually reserved for Republicans. That’s when they lost the script and started serving the same masters.

Anymore it seems that Social Issues are the main differences between the parties. But there has been a quiet shift of Billionaires to the Dem side.

 

[Herdfan]

And my point is a lot of voters aren’t going to care who or what the reason for it is. They didn’t get what they wanted….again, and this is far from the first time.

I’m in the camp that believes if Democrats lose control of Congress in 2022 then I hope people have a nice hobby they can enjoy while democracy collapses around them. And if Republicans maintain control of Congress then it probably doesn’t matter much who the President in 2024 is either.

This is looking like more of a lock every day with increasing inflation. People are going to be squeezed, especially on food, and will be looking for someone to blame and the party in power is the easy target.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Why don’t you ask Tim Scott? Everybody agreed HE should lead the team to create the bill, remember? The GOP insisted that it be a bipartisan effort, and that Tim would make it happen? He intentionally torpedoed it, claiming that he HAD to because Cory Booker wanted to defund the police... which is completely false. In reality, the GOP never wanted to do anything to reform the police, and it was all a delay tactic. Shame on them.

Cory Booker disputes Tim Scott's claim Democrats wanted to defund police in reform bill

"This is a bill that would have had millions of dollars for police departments ... millions of dollars more, additional dollars," the New Jersey Democrat said.

www.newsweek.com

So basically the Republicans win again. Well, at least Democrats tried. Maybe we should give them a participation trophy.

 

[ronntaylor]

You stated in an earlier post that if the smaller Bill gets passed, then the bigger portion is dead. That is probably correct. The solution is simple: win 2 more Senate seats in a year and hold the House and then pass the rest then. That is how the process is supposed to work. Make your case to the voters and get your candidates elected. One more year won't matter in the big picture.

That is some straight up Bullshit! You acknowledge that the GOP's intent is to kill the bigger portion once the smaller bill is passed. If it's killed, the Dems are up Shit's Creek with voters and won't be able to win two more seats a year later, and possibly will lose more seats because of that failure orchestrated by McConnell, McCarthy and the duplicitous Dems.

 

[ronntaylor]

So basically the Republicans win again. Well, at least Democrats tried. Maybe we should give them a participation trophy.

What is the solution? Besides letting everything fail and still getting blamed, the Dems really have no options. It's voters that has gotten us in this mess. After Mango was elected, they came out and smacked him upside the head in the 2018 midterms. And kicked his ass out last year, giving Biden-Harris minimal control of the Senate after close wins against flawed GOP incumbents. Too many races were won by the GOP that could have gone to the Democratic side? Too many Dem voters pay too little attention to off year and midterm elections. They shouldn't need Mango (or Bernie) to be on the ballot to be motivated. They want shit, they have to fight for shit.

 

[SuperMatt]

And my point is a lot of voters aren’t going to care who or what the reason for it is. They didn’t get what they wanted….again, and this is far from the first time.

I’m in the camp that believes if Democrats lose control of Congress in 2022 then I hope people have a nice hobby they can enjoy while democracy collapses around them. And if Republicans maintain control of Congress then it probably doesn’t matter much who the President in 2024 is either.

You are the one who put responsibility on “The Squad” for the problem. You put it out there....

I’m responding and saying it’s not their problem - they are doing what they said. It’s people like Sinema who said one thing to get elected, and are now doing the opposite that are the problem.

 

[SuperMatt]

What is the solution? Besides letting everything fail and still getting blamed, the Dems really have no options. It's voters that has gotten us in this mess. After Mango was elected, they came out and smacked him upside the head in the 2018 midterms. And kicked his ass out last year, giving Biden-Harris minimal control of the Senate after close wins against flawed GOP incumbents. Too many races were won by the GOP that could have gone to the Democratic side? Too many Dem voters pay too little attention to off year and midterm elections. They shouldn't need Mango (or Bernie) to be on the ballot to be motivated. They want shit, they have to fight for shit.

I think it’s the broken system called The US Senate that is the real problem. Wyoming gets 2 Senators, DC residents don’t even get a single vote. Total nonsense.