The Trump Indictment Thread

[dada_dave]

I can think of a couple of examples that I know of. One from the Snowden files (or maybe it was Manning) was some video of a helicopter in Iraq shooting some locals on the most vaporous of cause, which was suppressed because it would make the US look bad. To me, it is just plain wrong to classify material in order to maintain a veneer of respectability.

More recently, there was the actual CFEFWSG example in which he spoke of plans for an invasion of Iran, which was classified at the level of its enclosing folder: even just saying that the document(s) existed was a security breach. It is absurd to imagine that the Pentagon does not have war plans drawn up for every other country on Earth, and probably even some American cities, which indicates that the Iran plans were significantly more serious than boilerplate stuff.

The point is that the government can say something like "this Exxon exploration contract is strategically important, and the breaks Exxon is getting here might be embarrassing to us, so this is Eyes-only," and we wil never find out about it. The classification system is a terrible weak spot for an actual democratic republic.

Btw I know you are not actually defending him but just in case there is any actual confusion about just how serious this is:

There is a point to government over classification and as well that those in government such as from the state department and the political branches can have different access needs than is typical which is why you get “if I treated classified information that way I’d be in jail” double standards which are known except to the naive … and the cynical.

However none of that applies to Trump. From what I can tell, he deliberately took a lot of classified material after he left office, at least some if not a lot of what he took were the Crown Jewels (the kind of shit where the classification level is itself classified), he knew he had taken them, he knew he shouldn’t have done so, he talked about what was in such documents to people who weren’t supposed to know about such things, again he talked about knowing he wasn’t supposed to, and he deliberately tried to hide the fact he took them from the Feds when they asked and his own lawyers when they asked.

He’s fucked and quite rightly so.

 

[Yoused]

he deliberately tried to hide the fact he took them

Which sounds exactly like he was going to use them for extortion and/or profit. Once again highlighting a serious weakness in the way the government functions.

 

[Citysnaps]

I can think of a couple of examples that I know of. One from the Snowden files (or maybe it was Manning) was some video of a helicopter in Iraq shooting some locals on the most vaporous of cause, which was suppressed because it would make the US look bad. To me, it is just plain wrong to classify material in order to maintain a veneer of respectability.

More recently, there was the actual CFEFWSG example in which he spoke of plans for an invasion of Iran, which was classified at the level of its enclosing folder: even just saying that the document(s) existed was a security breach. It is absurd to imagine that the Pentagon does not have war plans drawn up for every other country on Earth, and probably even some American cities, which indicates that the Iran plans were significantly more serious than boilerplate stuff.

The point is that the government can say something like "this Exxon exploration contract is strategically important, and the breaks Exxon is getting here might be embarrassing to us, so this is Eyes-only," and we wil never find out about it. The classification system is a terrible weak spot for an actual democratic republic.

I agree with the examples you cited. I get it.

But...how would you change the system to prevent those abuses, while not creating a burden for the genuine need for classification to protect national security interests of the US?

What comes to mind is the sheer number of classified documents that are produced every year. It's gotta be in the many millions, considering the scope of entities and their employees that daily produce classified documents (all defense contractors and studies firms/universities, think tanks, all branches of the military, the Pentagon, CIA/NSA/NRO/NGA/NNSA/DOE/etc, legislative bodies, US Embassies and other government sites around the world, etc).

And no doubt many more that aren't coming to mind right now. How do you provide non-burdensome oversight that doesn't slow down or get in the way preventing the millions of people who work in those spaces from doing their jobs?

 

[dada_dave]

Which sounds exactly like he was going to use them for extortion and/or profit. Once again highlighting a serious weakness in the way the government functions.

I’m not sure how except that they were too lenient in getting them back? But you can argue that they treated him as though he was a normal politician who would return them and by doing so gave him rope to hang himself.

 

[dada_dave]

I agree with the examples you cited. I get it.

But...how would you change the system to prevent those abuses, while not creating a burden for the genuine need for classification to protect national security interests of the US?

What comes to mind is the sheer number of classified documents that are produced every year. It's gotta be in the many millions, considering the scope of entities and their employees that daily produce classified documents (all defense contractors and studies firms/universities, think tanks, all branches of the military, the Pentagon, CIA/NSA/NRO/NGA/NNSA/DOE/etc, legislative bodies, US Embassies around the world, etc).

And no doubt many more that aren't coming to mind right now. How do you provide non-burdensome oversight that doesn't slow down or get in the way preventing the millions of people work in those spaces from doing their jobs?

I believe at last count there are >3 million people will secret level or greater clearance

 

[Citysnaps]

I believe at last count there are >3 million people will secret level or greater clearance

That feels way to low. But you cited " > ", so I guess that's a true statement.

 

[dada_dave]

That feels way to low. But you cited " > ", so I guess that's a true statement.

It was just north of 3 million is the number I remember, could be wrong, should be lookup able as it was reported on. And yes, we classify a lot of shit at the secret level and even top secret level (although can be classified not because of the content but the source and method). But the stuff beyond that? Yeah there’s probably over classification too, but some of that is the real deal. And that’s a lot smaller circle of people.

 

[dada_dave]

Another good point:

 

[Roller]

It’s so disappointing, though predictable, that Republican senators are lining up to condemn the indictment instead of blasting Trump. Every President did it; it’s weaponizing the DOJ, they claim. They’d say the same if Trump shot someone on Fifth Avenue like he used to boast. Heck, they’d also complain he was being treated unfairly if Trump shot one of them. Such is the state of the so-called GOP, about which nothing is grand.

 

[fooferdoggie]

it looks like this was the fist time trump actually did reading and checking maybe more then he did while in office.

 

[fooferdoggie]

man even this idiot is still sucking up.

DeSantis Opts Not To Take On Trump Over Secret Documents Indictment​

DeSantis Opts Not To Take On Trump Over Secret Documents Indictment

Trump’s closest GOP rival never mentioned the coup-attempting former president by name but suggested the prosecution against him was politically motivated.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Eric]

man even this idiot is still sucking up.

DeSantis Opts Not To Take On Trump Over Secret Documents Indictment​

DeSantis Opts Not To Take On Trump Over Secret Documents Indictment

Trump’s closest GOP rival never mentioned the coup-attempting former president by name but suggested the prosecution against him was politically motivated.

www.huffpost.com

Roll over and take it from Trump, it's worked out well for every other person who's tried to take him on and lost their ass.

 

[Eric]

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Cmaier]

What could possibly go wrong?

I like how the flag stripes in front of his face in his avatar look like prison bars

 

[mac_in_tosh]

man even this idiot is still sucking up.

DeSantis Opts Not To Take On Trump Over Secret Documents Indictment​

He was a Navy JAG officer and he can't bring himself to criticize someone who stole top secret documents and obstructed their return to the government. Not exactly profiles in courage.

 

[Eric]

Anyone remember when terrorism was a crime in the before times?

 

[Citysnaps]

Tidying up his new home:

 

[GermanSuplex]

Anyone remember when terrorism was a crime in the before times?

Kari is one of those tough-talking grifters who are content to let the minions carry out the violence. For all their tough-talk, they will not be the ones on the front lines.

Whats going to happen is, one day, one of these hard-right cult nuts are found to be victimized by one of their own supporters, for who knows what reason. Probably over some ridiculous conspiracy they push among themselves and onto the stupid in their party.

And they will have nobody to blame but themselves. When you look around, the GOP is split. This isn’t a Democrat party problem, this is a Republican party problem. It’s one-third full of lunatics, and the remaining 2/3 are too scared or complacent to do anything about it. Loudmouths and subservients are all you have. They are on a path to self destruction. I’m not being hyperbolic, we will see if I’m wrong.

What could possibly go wrong?

Its f*****g Groundhog Day.

His own party should be pointing out that while Former president Trump has a right to call for a such a rally, he shouldn’t.

Just like they should be condemning for mishandling classified docs, regardless of whether it was legal or not (and it’s a fact it was not).

We have seen this play out, it’s so obvious.

I don’t think there are enough nuts left brave enough to try anything too crazy. People are going to jail now, and people take notice. So there may folks with hats and signs, yelling out for or against Trump… nothing new there. As long as security is good and neither side gets out of hand, one side is free to protest Trump being indicted, and the other side is free to protest in the wrong, and defend their criminal cult leader.

 

[dada_dave]

Judge Cannon unfortunately has the case for the duration … not good …

 

[GermanSuplex]

I don’t know why she wouldn’t want to recuse herself from the case. But if she did, Trump would bang that drum until the end… “I got stuck with a DEMOCRAT Soros-funded judge instead of the honorable Judge Cannon!”

Hopefully she won’t give deference to Trump merely because of who he is, as she did last time. Is she an actual judge, or does she want to be a hero in Trump-world? I guess we will see.

What happened previously could have been an anomaly, maybe she has wised up and will be a great and impartial judge. While she holds a lot of power, so do others, and anything she does that it is well outside the norms can and will be successfully challenged.