FBI executed search warrant at Mar-a-Lago

Eric

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So why did he wait 2 months to disclose this? Not very transparent. Also would love to see the visitor logs of everyone who has visited his house where the records were stored in the garage.
IMO this is a fair question under the circumstances. However, we could also assume that had Trump simply returned his when asked we would all be none the wiser and would likely have never even heard about this. In the end Trump set the standard by defying the DOJ at every corner before they finally had to raid his residence.
 

Herdfan

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What's important is immediate notification to the National Archives, not claiming ownership of the documents, and not saying he willed them declassified.

Immediate cooperation, rather than obfuscation.

Correct.

But again, this is a political problem more than a legal problem. Too many people had to rush in an condemn Trump for having classified documents and how horrible he was for even having them are now have to eat their words a bit. Yes, Biden's team did what they should have, but that doesn't excuse what they did.

One upside for the Dems is that now they have a legitimate way to move on from Biden.
 

Herdfan

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IMO this is a fair question under the circumstances. However, we could also assume that had Trump simply returned his when asked we would all be none the wiser and would likely have never even heard about this. In the end Trump set the standard by defying the DOJ at every corner before they finally had to raid his residence.

That is one thing I probably will never understand. Why he wanted to keep them. If he wanted them that badly, he could have brought in a copier or scanner and made himself copies and simply returned the originals. That wouldn't have made it right, but it would have made it go away.

Everyone wants to make hay out of the fact his attorney's immediately notified the NA. That's great. But should his attorney's be the ones looking for these? Do they have the appropriate security clearances to even see them?
 
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thekev

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Seems the second set was found.....

View attachment 20808


...... in his garage.

In Futurama, one of the most important problems in complexity theory was solved and shoved away in a broom closet.

yycw3wudehzy.jpg
 

bwinter88

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Correct.

But again, this is a political problem more than a legal problem. Too many people had to rush in an condemn Trump for having classified documents and how horrible he was for even having them are now have to eat their words a bit. Yes, Biden's team did what they should have, but that doesn't excuse what they did.

One upside for the Dems is that now they have a legitimate way to move on from Biden.
Move on from Biden because some docs were left lying around? Are you nuts? We don't even know if Biden ever even touched those documents. Presidents operate with a coterie who are responsible for this kind of thing. All of these instances could just as easily have been a careless aide.

Trump nakedly disclosed classified information to Sergei Lavrov in the freaking Oval office a month into his presidency that compromised CIA assets in Russia and burned our intelligence relationship with Israel, and everyone seemed fine with that. But leaving some docs in a locked closet is disqualifying...thanks for the laugh.
 
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Herdfan

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Move on from Biden because some docs were left lying around? Are you nuts?

Only as nuts as the 70% of people who say they don't want him to run:

And 70% say Biden should not run for a second term with just 19% supporting a run.


I'm just say that this is an easy way to keep him from doing what only 19% of people want him to do.
 

bwinter88

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Only as nuts as the 70% of people who say they don't want him to run:




I'm just say that this is an easy way to keep him from doing what only 19% of people want him to do.
We already have a perfectly good reason not to support his 2nd bid; he's too old. I'm asking you if you're nuts because you seem to think this faff with leaving documents around is somehow disqualifying. I don't support his 2nd bid but if he were younger I absolutely would. I don't know why you think we need another reason other than age, or why this documents thing in any way raises questions about his ability to do the job.
 
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Herdfan

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We already have a perfectly good reason not to support his 2nd bid; he's too old. I'm asking you if you're nuts because you think this faff with leaving documents around would be disqualifying for the presidency.

I'm not saying it would disqualify him legally. But it could be used as an excuse not to support him. And this could come from the party, the money players, or other string pullers.

Just saying it is an excuse they can use.


I don't support his 2nd bid but if he were younger I absolutely would. I don't know why you think another reason is necessary let alone why this one would be legitimate.

You mean you would support "Crime bill Biden" or "racial jungle Biden"?
 

bwinter88

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I'm not saying it would disqualify him legally. But it could be used as an excuse not to support him. And this could come from the party, the money players, or other string pullers.

Just saying it is an excuse they can use.
Would love to hear the logical argument for disqualifying him because his aide left some documents lying around.

You mean you would support "Crime bill Biden" or "racial jungle Biden"?
That's the best you have? :ROFLMAO:
 

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I don't support his 2nd bid but if he were younger I absolutely would. I don't know why you think we need another reason other than age, or why this documents thing in any way raises questions about his ability to do the job.

I feel the same. I have no issues in general about his leadership, service, deep foreign policy experience, decision making, wisdom, thoughtfulness, honesty, morals, etc. In other words, he's a good guy I have a ton of respect for.

What I'm concerned about are his age, physical/cognitive decline, etc, and how that might further progress by 2024, resulting in poor optics running against DeSantis. I'd much rather he step aside and support one of handful of potential possibilities from a younger generation - as David Gergen suggested last year.
 

Herdfan

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I feel the same. I have no issues in general about his leadership, service, deep foreign policy experience, decision making, wisdom, thoughtfulness, honesty, morals, etc. In other words, he's a good guy I have a ton of respect for.

What I'm concerned about are his age, physical/cognitive decline, etc, and how that might further progress by 2024, resulting in poor optics running against DeSantis. I'd much rather he step aside and support one of handful of potential possibilities from a younger generation - as David Gergen suggested last year.

Gergen seems to think this is a pretty big deal:

 

mac_in_tosh

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However, we could also assume that had Trump simply returned his when asked we would all be none the wiser and would likely have never even heard about this. In the end Trump set the standard by defying the DOJ at every corner before they finally had to raid his residence.
Pathological liar that he is, he was once on one of those right wing media outlets and claimed that if only they had asked him to return the documents he would have done so. This despite months of requests by the Archives and further negotiations with DOJ before a subpoena was necessary because of his lack of cooperation.
 

lizkat

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The one thing I don't understand is how Biden, who has a long career full of making racist statements, yet he gets a free pass because he has a D beside his name. I don't get it. I really don't.

How is it you think he gets a free pass. Maybe you missed that during the primaries Kamala Harris took Biden to task for having worked with racist southern Senators while opposing school busing. From a piece in Teen Vogue, no less, during the campaign:

“It was hurtful to hear you [Biden] talk about the reputations of two United States senators who built their reputations and careers on the segregation of race in this country,” Harris continued. “And it was not only that, but you also worked with them to oppose busing.”

Biden doesn't get a pass. He still slips and gets called out and then he gets some credit for continuing to make an effort to reduce effects of white supremacist thinking in the USA --e.g., in the housing sector, hammering on enforcement of laws against redlining and discriminatory housing appraisals-- which is more than one can say for Trump, who invariably just denies that he's racist.

Both men grew up in times that were far different to where we are now. Trump is still mired in the views he acquired then, and Biden has made an effort to change things for the better.

The two of them are too old to serve again if you ask me, and whatever they learned (and whoever they learned it from) about racial matters in the USA was from a time before the 1950s and 60s when this country was finally starting to address human rights acknowledgment with court cases and additional laws to protect those rights.

No one should get a free pass and it's not clear to me anyone has gotten one, at least through the lens of today's reviews of their earlier behavior. You can spend less than 10 seconds with a search engine and any conservative media outlet can be seen as able to provide you a list of every racist remark Joe Biden is ever known to have made. No one bothers to do that with Trump because it would take too long just to list the court cases he has had to face over discrimination against minorities in the NYC housing market.

But, the politicians who made efforts to change have gotten recognition for those efforts. People like LBJ and Robert Byrd and yes Joe Biden have all made contributions to American progress in human rights after having track records that clearly evinced overt racism in the past.

For example, it was blood, sweat and tears (and yeah, threats, and horsetrading) that got the Civil Rights Act of 1964 across the finish line. In the thick of the lawmaking effort was LBJ, warts and all. He was a product of his era and yet he knew what the right thing to do was, and practically moved heaven and earth amongst the southern Senators to make it happen. And yet the N-word existed in his own lexicon.

Donald Trump in contrast has invariably denied he's a racist and then does stuff lke suggest that some congresswomen of color whose politics he doesn't care for should go back "where they came from" even if where they came from is, uh.... the Bronx?! Oh, and call some African countries sh^tholes. His own outstanding contribution to human rights has been to appoint ultraconservative SCOTUS justices willing to roll back voting rights.
 

Citysnaps

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Donald Trump in contrast has invariably denied he's a racist and then does stuff lke suggest that some congresswomen of color whose politics he doesn't care for should go back "where they came from" even if where they came from is, uh.... the Bronx?!

And the time in 2016 at a campaign rally where he referred to a Black man in the audience as "My African American."
 

GermanSuplex

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Correct.

But again, this is a political problem more than a legal problem. Too many people had to rush in an condemn Trump for having classified documents and how horrible he was for even having them are now have to eat their words a bit. Yes, Biden's team did what they should have, but that doesn't excuse what they did.

One upside for the Dems is that now they have a legitimate way to move on from Biden.

LOL, you expect this to cause people to move on from Biden when the guy who did the worse version of what Biden did, but also a trillion other rotten unethical things, is running for president and is being praised and rehabbed by the GOP in congress?

Maybe in a perfect world, a scandal like this would result in a president resigning under bipartisan political pressure. Even then, only depending on the economy and general popularity of the president.

But in that same perfect world, Trump’s political career would have peaked when he was drawing crowds of one dozen people to rant about Obama’s birth certificate.

So we don’t live in that world, and unless any proof of Biden acting maliciously happens here, I feel confident in supporting him and not feeling hypocritical. Not saying he gets as many free passes as the GOP gives Trump, but he’s got a long way to go until he even approaches the outskirts of Trump-level corruption.
 

SuperMatt

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You can tell how bad the story is for Trump by how far afield the Trump lovers take the thread. How did we get from Mar-a-Lago classified documents to “Biden is a racist; he said something bad in 1977”? Ask the person who claimed not to know anything about racism, but wants to learn. Apparently he did learn and now he knows more than everybody else, and is choosing a thread about Trump’s classified documents hoard to tell us all about it.

@Herdfan Congrats on becoming an expert on racism; thanks for lecturing us all on it. But maybe, just maybe... take it to an appropriate thread?

Back to the topic: I wonder how Jack Smith’s investigation is coming along. Trump has feelings about it:

“The Special ‘Prosecutor’ assigned to the ‘get Trump case,’ Jack Smith(?), is a Trump Hating THUG whose wife is a serial and open Trump Hater, whose friends & other family members are even worse, and as a prosecutor in Europe, according to Ric Grenell, put a high government official in prison because he was a Trump positive person. Smith is known as ‘an unfair Savage,’” & is best friends with the craziest Trump haters....”

I do agree with Trump on one thing: Jack Smith seems like a made-up name... :cool:
 
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Eric

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Biden’s document handling is at least remotely relevant here but the racism tangent most certainly is not. Just more throwing feces at the wall to distract from the topic…

How about starting a new thread?

You can tell how bad the story is for Trump by how far afield the Trump lovers take the thread. How did we get from Mar-a-Lago classified documents to “Biden is a racist; he said something bad in 1977”? Ask the person who claimed not to know anything about racism, but wants to learn. Apparently he did learn and now he knows more than everybody else, and is choosing a thread about Trump’s classified documents hoard to tell us all about it.

@Herdfan Congrats on becoming an expert on racism; thanks for lecturing us all on it. But maybe, just maybe... take it to an appropriate thread?

Back to the topic: I wonder how Jack Smith’s investigation is coming along. Trump has feelings about it:



I do agree with Trump on one thing: Jack Smith seems like a made-up name... :cool:
Agreed. A new thread has been created and all relevant posts moved. Please keep that conversation in the new thread and carry on here. @Herdfan let me know if you want a different title.

 
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