Stealing The Election 101

[Alli]

I’d like elected officials in congress and for elections to pass security clearance as well.

And term limits. Don’t forget term limits!

And welcome to our little corner of heaven.

 

[thekev]

6. The certification of the vote needs to be it. Electors cannot be faithless.
7. Presidents, Secretary of (XXX), Whitehouse Administration needs to respond to subpoenas.

Just on these two, number 6 is likely an issue of state law or an amendment. Many states have laws against faithless electors. I'm not sure it actually invalidates their vote if they go rogue, but they can be prosecuted. Some states have toyed with the idea of allocating electors based on the outcome of the popular vote. It's up to the states how to allocate electors, even though anything that goes against norms may result in some number of lawsuits.

Number 7 is an issue of enforcement. You need either Congress or the Supreme Court to have these guys arrested and dragged in if they do not appear voluntarily. Without a willingness to do that, you have this nonsense.

You probably need some limits on the power of presidential pardons to really make it really effective, which may in fact require an amendment.

 

[fooferdoggie]

I am starting to wonder if all of what trump is doing is what Putin wants? that's what Russia wants is us in doubt and divided. of course trump wants the money too

 

[Huntn]

You're likely correct about that although I maintain that a big chunk of that 70 million votes represents people who held nose, voted for Trump (even again, yeah) because they are Republican-leaners on policy matters like taxes and deregulation.

I know it's hard to get one's mind around the idea of tolerating the behavior and motivations of this crew in the White House for the sake of policy expectations, but some voters do just see tax cuts and dereg as the linchpin of their political frameworks.​

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And...some voters see religious / social issues as determining their votes, even though they may not approve in the least of Trump as he presents personally.​

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Personally there's no way I can compartmentalize to quite that extent. Trump was always going to be a bridge too far for me, in so many ways. But I can almost understand it.​

We've probably all voted for a presidential candidate in the past at least once or twice where their expected policies were preferential to those of the opposing party's candidate, even if looking at the candidates themselves we might even have felt like voting for the other guy.

Back in 1988 I was very conflicted before the election because I had a lot of respect for Bush 41 as a person. But I preferred the policies of the Democrats to what looked like could be an extension of Reagan policies by Bush, although "maybe not", I told myself. And I didn't much care for Dukakis personally; I thought he was wrapped way too tight, although I admired his progressive track record in Massachusetts.

Then Bush throws a wrench into the picture with that Willie Horton ad, which made me loathe him and his campaign staff and his party. Then Dukakis answers an outrageous question in debate about a hypothetical rape and murder of his wife: would he favor the death penalty, and Dukakis answered it with about as much emotional engagement as if he'd merely been asked what he thought of last year's Farm Bill, or did he like chicken or tuna salad better and why. I was like WTF man, why are you not shouting at Bernard Shaw to have some f'g respect for Kitty Dukakis. I felt like Dukakis was wrapped way too tight.​

​

I voted for Dukakis anyway. I told myself he'd been a good governor in Massachusetts and he wasn't going to run 4 more years of Reaganomics on his watch. I wasn't unhappy on Election Night that he lost though. I always liked Bush 41 better than Reagan, so if the country was gonna roll with the GOP again in 1988, at least the guy in the WH was someone I felt was far more informed and engaged than Reagan ever was.​

So when I think about trying to sort out why people voted for Trump v Clinton or Trump v Biden, I still do look back at 1988 when I had all kinds of reasons to vote for the Dems and yet was not unhappy they lost, because honestly just the personalities of the two men was looming as the differentiator for me that year. It was not quite enough to make me vote for Bush (because I really am a policy person) but very damn near it. I think if it hadn't been for 8 years of Reagan before that, I would have helped elect Bush 41 myself, even being a Dem and while being pissed off about the Willie Horton ad.

In a way my reaction to Bush winning in 1988 is a little like Biden winning in 2020... sheer relief that someone actually engaged and competent although awkward sometimes would be in the White House again.

As far as the 70 million Trump votes though, I expect we will see fairly soon how much of that was hardcore Trump cult followers and how many voted to acknowledge preference for Trump picking conservative high court justices or doing a lot of deregulation plus the tax cuts. The people who went for him on policy will accept Biden's presidency but then just lean on their congress critters to fight the House tooth and nail, and will expect McConnell to shape Biden's agency picks and try to keep legislation to the right of center where it's been for so long already.

The unknown factor is whether the extreme right in the House will act the same without having Trump as their foil every morning on Twitter, or whether Trump will try to play head of a shadow government.

It could get uglier than most of us would like to think right now because a lot of norms about new administrations --surface civility and honeymoon periods, previous admin figures staying low profile for awhile except for consulting behind scenes if asked, etc.-- are not things that would stand in the way of Trump pretending he's still the president, and so addressing only his supporters the way he does now, as if they and they alone are "Americans". I'd like to think Fox et al would not enable that but I'm not really hopeful about it. Some fair chunk of their audience won't even think Trump isn't speaking as the President any more; it's not like they're all that connected to reality outside the screens of the Fox shows or Fox wouldn't have been playing this post-election game so long...

Still I think more of the Trump voters of 2020 are policy people than they are the vociferous and fringe extreme right helping Trump write a dramatic exit from his one term Presisdency right now. The clothespin-on-nose voters just have really good clothespins. The platform in 2020 was far simpler: "Trump!" -- and aimed at glossing over deep fractures in the GOP-- but that still translated to policy in the minds of those fans of tax cuts and deregulation who had clothespins in their pockets ready to use again.

Very insightful, I just can’t wrap my head around he’s good for business, a deregulator, he‘s good for conservative judges, (while he thinks corrupt judges), and he’ll be good to eliminate abortions, and all I have to pay for this with is my soul, my pretense at being a fiscal hawk, and to embrace corruption, fascism, and destroy our democracy, while assisting a malignant sociopath to seize power as a dictator. They probably lock that last part out of their calculations or heaven help us, think he is a profit (Ironic term).

He pushes what he perceives as the limits, look at the multitude of failed court cases. I’m sure he felt his judges would back his BS (surprise shit head!) and if he thought he had a lock on the military, it would be Marshall law and Supreme Leader for our foreseeable future.

Sure there are people who don’t follow the path beyond tomorrow, maybe they just lock those aspects of a malignant, immoral sociopath out of their calculations because there is too much profit, perceived profit, too much green $ clouding their vision. We can still be critical of them because it’s the exact same thinking that will ruin the Planet for us and I can only say we’ll deserve it, because by our action/inaction we are unworthy.

Btw I voted for Bush Sr, then made my break for Clinton. I was an independent for both votes.

 

[Huntn]

I am starting to wonder if all of what trump is doing is what Putin wants? that's what Russia wants is us in doubt and divided. of course trump wants the money too

Thump is a gold mine for Mother Russia. Btw, I am reading The Kremlin’s Candidate released in 2018, the third in a series of excellent spy novels, and this author has both Trump and Putin nailed. The references in the book are towards POTUS.

 

[lizkat]

He pushes what he perceives as the limits, look at the multitude of failed court cases.

Yeah and it's not lost on McConnell that the cases are largely in state courts. My concern right now is drifting away from Trump for the moment to how McConnell reveals the intent behind his obsession to pack the federal courts system with right wing ideologues.

Part of his resistance to the next covid relief bill is about liability of businesses for covid-related issues. McConnell realizes he's probably not going to have his way by squashing such liability entirely via stipulations in the relief bill, so he's hoping instead to force all those cases to be federal ones, urging states to quickly pass legislation saying exactly that, i.e. that if you intend to sue a business over what you regard as wrongful treatment related to how the establishment dealt with you and your exposure to or infection from covid-19 --worker safety, failure to issue protective gear etc.-- then you must take your case not to your state's civil courts but to the federal court system [where McConnell's pro-business jurists await you].

 

[Eraserhead]

I am starting to wonder if all of what trump is doing is what Putin wants? that's what Russia wants is us in doubt and divided. of course trump wants the money too

Putin wants a divided Europe (and to a lesser extent a divided USA) and the ability to sell oil and gas.

 

[rdrr]

Ok we have officially gone into full three ring circus mode. God this is embarrassing.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337481504457363456/

 

[lizkat]

Ok we have officially gone into full three ring circus mode. God this is embarrassing.

We were already the laughingstock of the world. Not sure the Supreme Court will be amused.

 

[Thomas Veil]

Okay, check this out.

Top House Republican Kevin McCarthy backs Texas' long-shot Supreme Court bid to overturn Biden wins

Nancy Pelosi slammed McCarthy and other Republicans supporting Texas' far-fetched Supreme Court suit to effectively reverse Biden's projected win over Trump.

www.cnbc.com

The count of House Republicans who want to overthrow the election is now up to 126.

This is treason. It’s also the world’s biggest FU to the Democratic Party. An act of combined entitlement and political treachery the likes of which this country has never before seen.

So let me ask you all this...

How are the Democrats in Congress ever supposed to work with these people again?

How are you supposed to deal in a professional way with 126 people who tried to steal an election from you?

How is that in any way, shape or form supposed to work??

It’s like being expected to share an office and work side by side with the guy who tried to rape your wife.

 

[lizkat]

Okay, check this out.

Top House Republican Kevin McCarthy backs Texas' long-shot Supreme Court bid to overturn Biden wins

Nancy Pelosi slammed McCarthy and other Republicans supporting Texas' far-fetched Supreme Court suit to effectively reverse Biden's projected win over Trump.

www.cnbc.com

The count of House Republicans who want to overthrow the election is now up to 126.

This is treason. It’s also the world’s biggest FU to the Democratic Party. An act of combined entitlement and political treachery the likes of which this country has never before seen.

So let me ask you all this...
;
How are the Democrats in Congress ever supposed to work with these people again?

How are you supposed to deal in a professional way with 126 people who tried to steal an election from you?

How is that in any way, shape or form supposed to work??

It’s like being expected to share an office and work side by side with the guy who tried to rape your wife.

Yah, work that must be done across the aisle in the House will be problematic in 2021 without some self-serving apologies from these Rs. They're probably not going to apologize anyway; they're more likely to double down.

What really is the point of this? Ass-covering by GOP congress critters afraid of their Trump-loving constituents? Trump is insane and the House lackeys are admiring the clothes on a naked emperor.

How are historians going to present this chapter of our lives together in a textbook someday?

 

[SuperMatt]

Okay, check this out.

Top House Republican Kevin McCarthy backs Texas' long-shot Supreme Court bid to overturn Biden wins

Nancy Pelosi slammed McCarthy and other Republicans supporting Texas' far-fetched Supreme Court suit to effectively reverse Biden's projected win over Trump.

www.cnbc.com

The count of House Republicans who want to overthrow the election is now up to 126.

This is treason. It’s also the world’s biggest FU to the Democratic Party. An act of combined entitlement and political treachery the likes of which this country has never before seen.

So let me ask you all this...

How are the Democrats in Congress ever supposed to work with these people again?

How are you supposed to deal in a professional way with 126 people who tried to steal an election from you?

How is that in any way, shape or form supposed to work??

It’s like being expected to share an office and work side by side with the guy who tried to rape your wife.

Truly I hope for the Georgia Senate seats to “go blue” although I’m not holding my breath. Dems need to do what is right for America - a progressive agenda. If the Republicans complain, ignore them completely.

 

[SuperMatt]

Supreme Court delivers a Smackdown to Trump. Only Alito and Thomas said anything in dissent. No surprise there; they are the worst two justices, always going 100% ideology with no consistent legal philosophy.

Texas doesn’t have standing to sue another state for how they run their elections. DUH. Everybody knew this, and it took probably 10 minutes for SCOTUS to make this decision.

Supreme Court Rejects Texas Suit Seeking to Subvert Election (Published 2020)

The suit, filed directly in the Supreme Court, sought to bar Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin from casting their electoral votes for Joseph R. Biden Jr.

www.nytimes.com

 

[lizkat]

There doesn't seem to be a leg to stand on with the Texas case and the claim that a dispute between two states gets resolved in the Supreme Court is not correct w/ respect to state controls on elections.

The states can set their rules however their own frameworks allows, whether legislatively or by amendment ot state constitution etc. None of the methods and timings the states chose to use in 2020 --to enable safer ways of voting during this coronavirus pandemic and to count those additional votes-- was obscure or hard to understand, no matter if other states do it differently.

Also, all the states have certified their votes after any required or requested recounts and so they're ready to cast the EVs on Monday.

Monday night, this better be over. Are we not sick of seeing this circus put on to placate a wacko lame duck head of state? I don't get McConnell and McCarthy playing along, it's like shredding the Constitution and setting precedents by their behavior that they'll never tolerate when a Dem does it.

The Rs cannot expect the Dems to stand by and watch this travesty of "sedition theatre" without ensuring consequences that will affect both paries in future. This is a given. To me it's inexplicable they are going down this road.

 

[lizkat]

Thump is a gold mine for Mother Russia. Btw, I am reading The Kremlin’s Candidate released in 2018, the third in a series of excellent spy novels, and this author has both Trump and Putin nailed. The references in the book are towards POTUS.

I mean to look into these. I like spy novels. Thanks!

 

[thekev]

Yah, work that must be done across the aisle in the House will be problematic in 2021 without some self-serving apologies from these Rs. They're probably not going to apologize anyway; they're more likely to double down.

What really is the point of this? Ass-covering by GOP congress critters afraid of their Trump-loving constituents? Trump is insane and the House lackeys are admiring the clothes on a naked emperor.

How are historians going to present this chapter of our lives together in a textbook someday?

Forcing them to stare at the emperor's penis isn't sufficient punishment. They all need to be kicked out of office.

The Rs cannot expect the Dems to stand by and watch this travesty of "sedition theatre" without ensuring consequences that will affect both paries in future. This is a given. To me it's inexplicable they are going down this road.

It seems more like Night Supreme Court than Sedition Theatre.

 

[lizkat]

Supreme Court delivers a Smackdown to Trump. Only Alito and Thomas said anything in dissent. No surprise there; they are the worst two justices, always going 100% ideology with no consistent legal philosophy.

Texas doesn’t have standing to sue another state for how they run their elections. DUH. Everybody knew this, and it took probably 10 minutes for SCOTUS to make this decision.

Supreme Court Rejects Texas Suit Seeking to Subvert Election (Published 2020)

The suit, filed directly in the Supreme Court, sought to bar Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin from casting their electoral votes for Joseph R. Biden Jr.

www.nytimes.com

Welp, Texas says so what and doubles down on insisting there's an alternative.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337549501507264515/

 

[SuperMatt]

Welp, Texas says so what and doubles down on insisting there's an alternative.

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337549501507264515/

How fracking stupid to go to civil war over Donald Trump? Why not go to war over calling fizzy drinks soda vs pop? Holy cow, the minds of conservatives have been reduced to a slurry of coffee grounds and vinegar or something...

 

[lizkat]

How fracking stupid to go to civil war over Donald Trump? Why not go to war over calling fizzy drinks soda vs pop? Holy cow, the minds of conservatives have been reduced to a slurry of coffee grounds and vinegar or something...

Trump loves being in the middle of all this. It's all about him and the best of his covfefe:

I alone divided America! ​

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The bitterness and gnashing of teeth is unprecedented!​

The thing is he never understood or liked the job (except for exploring what he could personally get away with regarding exercise of power). He let all kinds of agendas get implemented without supervision, went golfing more often than picked up a phone to inquire about details of legislation... why are these GOP congressmen making nearly traitorous fools of themselves over this moron who cares nothing for them or the well being of the people they are supposed to represent after swearing an oath binding them to the Constiution.

It's not like the GOP didn't get a lot of what their 2016 platform aimed for. These guys are just burning themselves and their party to the ground because they can't stop playing political gotcha games, and Trump loves the conflict it stirs up. He's gone in January and leaves behind a House and Senate full of partisans struggling to keep from wanting to kill each other over an election that wasn't even close.

Strikes me it's like not being able to put the desktop's mouse down and leave an addictive video game behind when it's time to go to work. There's no cognition involved when operating in thrall to addiction. These guys are addicted to GOTCHA. It's pathetic. Not even juvenile, it's Infantile.

 

[JayMysteri0]

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337569038222962688/

At some wasn't schooling involved to become a lawyer?

https://www.twitter.com/i/web/status/1337550759768944640/