Georgia Senate race cliffhanger

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SuperMatt

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What of the mob - egged on by Mr Trump - currently attempting to invade the building and put a stop to proceedings?
Arrest every single one of them. Keep them locked up a long time. Peaceful protest is protected. Physically attacking the Capitol of the United States of America - needs to be punished severely so that nobody tries it again.
 
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Arkitect

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So Trump now turns on Pence…

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dogslobber

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Arrest every single one of them. Keep them locked up a long time. Peaceful protest is protected. Physically attacking the Capitol of the United States of America - needs to be punished severely so that nobody tries it again.
Execute them. They're terrorists who tried a coup. DC cops should be emptying their guns into them.
 

Scepticalscribe

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Execute them. They're terrorists who tried a coup. DC cops should be emptying their guns into them.

No.

It is not just the moral (we go high when they go low) arguments that matter here, it is also that the whole point of the Democratic Party is to repudiate such actions (that power comes from the lawless but mobilised rage of the mob, or from the barrel of a gun, from frothing and frenzied emotions fuelled by hate and fear), to be a party that subscribes to, and adheres to, and models (in their governance and their lives) the idea of the rule of law.

That means that we - if I can count myself among the "we" - arrest them, and charge them - and hopefully convict them - in accordance with the rule of law.
 

dogslobber

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No.

It is not just the moral (we go high when they go low) arguments that matter here, it is also that the whole point of the Democratic Party is to repudiate such actions (that power comes from the lawless but mobilised rage of the mob, or from the barrel of a gun, from frothing and frenzied emotions fuelled by hate and fear), to be a party that subscribes to, and adheres to, and models (in their governance and their lives) the idea of the rule of law.

That means that we - if I can count myself among the "we" - arrest them, and charge them - and hopefully convict them - in accordance with the rule of law.
They are terrorists that must be smashed down brutally and without mercy. You can never, ever allow an attack on your government to go unanswered. Death is the only thing that this scum should have coming to them.
 

Scepticalscribe

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They are terrorists that must be smashed down brutally and without mercy. You can never, ever allow an attack on your government to go unanswered. Death is the only thing that this scum should have coming to them.

No.

Even with terrorists - and I don't doubt that this is as close to an attempted coup as one can find in a western democracy - the rule of law must apply.

Otherwise, we are little better than the terrorists.
 

SuperMatt

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They are terrorists that must be smashed down brutally and without mercy. You can never, ever allow an attack on your government to go unanswered. Death is the only thing that this scum should have coming to them.
Breaking into the Capitol of any country to attempt to displace the government is an act of war. They would have been within their rights to shoot anybody that broke in immediately. Funny how these cops can show such restraint when it comes to white Trump-humpers.
 

dogslobber

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No.

Even with terrorists - and I don't doubt that this is as close to an attempted coup as one can find in a western democracy - the rule of law must apply.

Otherwise, we are little better than the terrorists.
Yes. Anybody who got in that Capitol building should be leaving in a body bag. DC should have shot them on sight as they are executing a coup by being there. A coup is instant death.
 

Scepticalscribe

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Yes. Anybody who got in that Capitol building should be leaving in a body bag. DC should have shot them on sight as they are executing a coup by being there. A coup is instant death.

No.

The Rule of Law matters.

Arrest and charge and convict them in accordance with the rule of law.

Otherwise, in the absence of a law based state, and a polity governed by and answerable to, the rule of law, politics simply becomes a matter of pure power projection, a matter of who controls the biggest mob of armed thugs.
 

lizkat

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Breaking into the Capitol of any country to attempt to displace the government is an act of war. They would have been within their rights to shoot anybody that broke in immediately. Funny how these cops can show such restraint when it comes to white Trump-humpers.

It's unprotected assembly under the 1A at this point, i.e. incited disorderly conduct at the very least, and potentially an act of treason... but we have laws that govern such charges and the prosecution and purnishment.

The Capitol Police are doing what they were trained to do in protests that get out of hand. Presumably so will the National Guard and the state troopers the DC Mayor requested come in from Virginia.
 

dogslobber

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No.

The Rule of Law matters.

Arrest and charge and convict them in accordance with the rule of law.

Otherwise, in the absence of a law based state, and a polity governed by and answerable to, the rule of law, politics simply becomes a matter of pure power projection, a matter of who controls the biggest mob of armed thugs.
The rule of law is that treason = death. As soon as you try to overthrow the gov't by stepping into the building you should be shot on sight.
 

Scepticalscribe

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The rule of law is that treason = death. As soon as you try to overthrow the gov't by stepping into the building you should be shot on sight.

Again, no.

That is mob rule.

That is the rule of the gun, not the rule of law.

Personally, I favour arresting these individuals, this mob, with watertight warrants, charging them, putting them on trial, presenting (irrefutable) evidence and - thereby - convicting them, all in accordance with the rule of law.

And, for what it is worth, I do not favour the death penalty.
 

SuperMatt

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If a bunch of armed Muslims attacked the Capitol, everybody would agree it was an act of war and gun them down. White terrorists get a pass.
 

lizkat

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So the Dems w/ VP-Elect Harris as the tie breaker will run the table in the 117th Senate.


 

Scepticalscribe

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If a bunch of armed Muslims attacked the Capitol, everybody would agree it was an act of war and gun them down. White terrorists get a pass.

No.

Not "everybody".

I would argue that they be arrested and tried, - in accordance with the rule of law - as well.
 
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dogslobber

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Again, no.

That is mob rule.

That is the rule of the gun, not the rule of law.

Personally, I favour arresting these individuals, this mob, with watertight warrants, charging them, putting them on trial, presenting (irrefutable) evidence and - thereby - convicting them, all in accordance with the rule of law.

And, for what it is worth, I do not favour the death penalty.
If a mob riots out in the open then you water cannon them into submission to regain control of the situation. That is the rule of law. These people are terrorists who attempted to overthrow the gov't today so you must put that insurrection down immediately to regain control. The rule of law says to regain control by that means necessary - when you cross into that building then that is death. These terrorists should have been shot dead by DC police.
 

SuperMatt

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If somebody breaks into another’s house, they can kill them in self-defense. These terrorists publicly stated they are there to overturn the government, and entered the Capitol by force. It would be reasonable for the police to start shooting the minute they busted through the door.

That being said, I am glad they didn’t fire on the terrorists. The Capitol police were WOEFULLY unprepared for something like this. They should have expected it and had far more robust procedures in place. It wasn’t a surprise that thousands were here with insurrection on their mind.
 
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