The Trump Cesspool Thread- a place to drop misc Trump turds

[Citysnaps]

And it could propel DeSantis and IMO that's a far scarier evil than Trump. Here's to hoping Trump can still pounce on him, even if it's with an ankle bracelet.

And there's Pence. And his fly, who I heard will be tapped as Pence's running mate. With Mother's approval (of course).

Not too worried about them. desantis is dangerous.

 

[KingOfPain]

And it could propel DeSantis and IMO that's a far scarier evil than Trump.

There are also investigations (in Texas) running against DeSantis due to his fugitive stunts:



EDIT: Minutes after I posted the one above, this video about potential kidnapping charges in California turned up:

 

[Yoused]

And it could propel DeSantis and IMO that's a far scarier evil than Trump.

Though I understand your concern, you must understand that there is s je ne sais quois that Ronnie simply lacks. ShitGibbon can do ald say the things he does because of his ildefinable quality, but Ronnie does not have that quality, and there is no indication that he will ever be able to acquire it.

 

[GermanSuplex]

 

[Citysnaps]

From the Wash Post:

"Several Trump advisers confirmed the charges. Trump said he has been summoned to appear in federal court in Miami on Tuesday at 3 p.m. A seven-count indictment has been filed in federal court naming the former president as a criminal defendant, according to people familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe a case that has yet to be unsealed."

"Criminal defendant"... that's nice. Along with NY's 34 felonies. Hopefully Fani Willis in Georgia will soon have some news.

 

[GermanSuplex]

NBC news has confirmed the indictment.

June 7, another great day for the year 2023, and Trump can brag about having been a first. He can use hyperbole - “an indictment the likes of which we have never seen before” - and actually be telling the truth.

 

[Yoused]

"Criminal defendant"... that's nice. Along with NY's 34 felonies.

He could be in a cell next to Wild Bill on death row and still not be ineligible to run for office.

 

[AG_PhamD]

This is kind of interesting. I think a lot of people assumed that given that Biden was found with multiple caches, of classified documents. It seems Trump was entirely non-cooperative with the National archives. Biden claims his team was cooperative, which they appear to be, but the timing of when these documents were allegedly found is rather suspicious given the proximity to the primaries.

It’s quite evident that our country has a serious problem with keeping track of classified information. Trump, Biden, Pence- and I’m sure at many others that we don’t know about who have since dug through their attics and burnt any documents. Hillary had classified documents on her personal server which was subsequently “accidentally” wiped when the FBI asked for it. Hell, we had that Air Force guy, who barely looks like he’s started puberty, accessing highly classified military intel and was posting it online for months before anyone noticed.

In any case, AFAIU mishandling classified docs is a strict liability crime, intent doesn’t matter. While I think all powerful people need to be held to account just like everyone else; going after Trump (or anyone else) or process crimes I don’t think is necessarily the best idea given how frequently powerful people avoid prosecution. But even if he was found guilty on process crimes, it’s unlikely he would go to jail.

The real question in my mind is what were the documents, why was Trump so adamant against returning them, and did Trump plan to use the classified info for nefarious purposes- like selling it or using it as blackmail. That’s a much more serious issue. If there is evidence Trump was doing or planning shady stuff, it’s over for him.

Or at least he’ll have to run for office from a jail cell. He could be elected in Prison. Idk if Trump ever found out if he could pardon himself, but I guess in this case we’d find out.

And it could propel DeSantis and IMO that's a far scarier evil than Trump. Here's to hoping Trump can still pounce on him, even if it's with an ankle bracelet.

Or we have our first president elected from prison. Realistically, Desantis I think would be the nominee and no one else would have a chance. Honestly, if Desantis pretended to appear a little bit more moderate, as he was when he first came to prominence during COVID, he’d probably have a better chance. But all this Disney, abortion, LGBT, book banning, etc craziness will probably concern moderate voters, libertarians, and anyone who cares about rights.

 

[Citysnaps]

Or at least he’ll have to run for office from a jail cell.

I wonder how his required Secret Service protection would be accommodated? It would really suck being a member of that detail.

 

[GermanSuplex]

Biden claims his team was cooperative, which they appear to be, but the timing of when these documents were allegedly found is rather suspicious given the proximity to the primaries.

Not really suspicious. Pence had them to. They probably saw what Trump was doing willfully and intentionally, and said “Yeah, make sure I don’t have any of this stuff laying around”.

Which, if Trump had done from the starts, this story would have died. It started out the same as the Biden and Pencd stories - “Trump took classified docs home” were the headlines shortly after he left office. Then a year later there was news the Archives were still going back and forth, then the search warrant hit.

I would also not be surprised if other members of congress and/or current or former officials may have done searches of their own to make sure they were in compliance.

Trump, as usual, thinks he can do wrong, doubles down on his efforts, and now he finds himself in more trouble. And there is mounting evidence that’s exactly what he did… stole the documents, refused to turn them over, ignored and deified subpoenas, lied, and drag an untold number of other people down with him.

He is not in trouble for the mere fact of taking them home.

 

[Citysnaps]

... stole the documents, refused to turn them over, ignored and deified subpoenas, lied, and drag an untold number of other people down with him.

We'll probably never find out, but I'd sure like to know what his motivation was. I can only speculate.

 

[Eric]

Not really suspicious. Pence had them to. They probably saw what Trump was doing willfully and intentionally, and said “Yeah, make sure I don’t have any of this stuff laying around”.

In all of these cases it was incidental and all parties cooperated.

Which, if Trump had done from the starts, this story would have died. It started out the same as the Biden and Pencd stories - “Trump took classified docs home” were the headlines shortly after he left office. Then a year later there was news the Archives were still going back and forth, then the search warrant hit.

I would also not be surprised if other members of congress and/or current or former officials may have done searches of their own to make sure they were in compliance.

Trump, as usual, thinks he can do wrong, doubles down on his efforts, and now he finds himself in more trouble. And there is mounting evidence that’s exactly what he did… stole the documents, refused to turn them over, ignored and deified subpoenas, lied, and drag an untold number of other people down with him.

He is not in trouble for the mere fact of taking them home.

They tried everything to work with Trump but he deliberately refused and then obstructed when they were finally forced to intervene. Had he simply given them all back we likely would've never even heard about this.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Though I understand your concern, you must understand that there is s je ne sais quois that Ronnie simply lacks.

Je sais - he lacks personality. His mean, tough-guy stance may work with the MAGA base and help to get him the nomination, but it won't work on a national level. He's just not a likable person.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

Had he simply given them all back we likely would've never even heard about this.

A while back I heard him say on one of those right-wing networks that "if they had just asked" he would have returned the documents. Such a pathological liar.

 

[Cmaier]

In all of these cases it was incidental and all parties cooperated.


They tried everything to work with Trump but he deliberately refused and then obstructed when they were finally forced to intervene. Had he simply given them all back we likely would've never even heard about this.

Yeah, what you can’t do is enter into a conspiracy to run dress rehearsals about how to hide the documents in case the feds show up, to submit false sworn declarations to law enforcement that you don’t have any documents, to disobey a court order to turn over documents, etc.

These aren’t “process” crimes, despite what one techboard member would like you to believe.

Imagine this scenario:

I come to your house for a visit. On the way out, I take your phone. Maybe it was an accident. You realize the phone is gone and ask for it back. I tell you I don’t have the phone. I tell my family that if the cops come, be ready to hide the phone in the attic. We move the phone around when investigators come to make sure they don’t find the phone. I tell my lawyer to sign a document saying I have no phone. Eventually I turn over just the screen protector, tell my lawyer he can check anywhere he wants - but only in my garage - for the phone, and tell him to sign a document that there is no phone. A court orders me to turn over the phone if I have it, but I don’t.

That’s what Trump did. The only difference is that what he ”retained” belonged to all of us, not just you.

 

[Renzatic]

Aileen Cannon is been tasked with overseeing Trump's case in Florida.

This story continues to get better and better with every twist.

 

[Chew Toy McCoy]

Heard it suggested that Trump should say the reason for all the smoke filled skies in the northeast of the US is because God is mad about the indictment. That would be something he would say. Complete disregard of science and the fact that God generally doesn’t champion sinners.

 

[AG_PhamD]

Not really suspicious. Pence had them to. They probably saw what Trump was doing willfully and intentionally, and said “Yeah, make sure I don’t have any of this stuff laying around”.

Which, if Trump had done from the starts, this story would have died. It started out the same as the Biden and Pencd stories - “Trump took classified docs home” were the headlines shortly after he left office. Then a year later there was news the Archives were still going back and forth, then the search warrant hit.

I would also not be surprised if other members of congress and/or current or former officials may have done searches of their own to make sure they were in compliance.

Trump, as usual, thinks he can do wrong, doubles down on his efforts, and now he finds himself in more trouble. And there is mounting evidence that’s exactly what he did… stole the documents, refused to turn them over, ignored and deified subpoenas, lied, and drag an untold number of other people down with him.

He is not in trouble for the mere fact of taking them home.

If Trump, Biden, Pence, both Clintons, Colin Powell (right?) etc all had classified documents stored in places they did not belong, I suspect there are (or were until recently) A LOT of documents out there.

I have mixed feelings on this indictment. In my opinion, in an ideal world, Hillary Clinton should have been prosecuted over her server situation and what appeared to me as blatant obstruction. Therefore, Trump should probably be prosecuted as well.

Since Clinton wasn’t prosecuted, the should Trump not be? I don’t know- I think Trump’s problems rise to another level when you consider the recording, which suggests he was intentionally sharing classified information that he admitted was not psychically declassified to unqualified individuals, which implicated the espionage act. To make things worse, it seems like Trump retained and shared this document in just to smear Mark Milley, which is alarming but not surprising given it’s Trump. And that makes me awfully worried about what other docs Trump had, why he decided to keep them, and what intentions he had.

I guess my question as a non-lawyer is the relationship between classified documents and the Presidential Records Act and it allowing, at least to a degree, the president having the authority to determine what is personal and what is presidential record. The 2012 Judicial Watch vs National Archives over the classification (personal vs presidential) of Bill Clinton’s Taylor Branch interview “sock drawer tape” addressed this, with Clinton retaining his right to the tapes. BUT these tapes were recordings of interviews with an author for a book that just so happened to have captured classified conversions- not explicitly classified documents from other government agencies. I suppose there’s a question as to just how far Trump could push bounds here.

In an ideal world, elites would be prosecuted when they break the law just as normal people would be. At the same time, I can recognize we do not live a perfect world where everyone can be unbiased and there is a danger of these prosecutions, even if 100% legitimate, coming off as politically motivated and the risk of societal conflict and precedence of retaliatory investigations, prosecutions, impeachments, etc. This is especially true when the incumbent administration is prosecuting the leading opposition candidate who happens to be the former president.

The next question is, if Trump is found guilty, what is the punishment? Assuming Trump was not selling secrets or doing something grievously wrong, is a court really going to sentence the former president and primary presidential opponent to prison (for up to 400 years)? I think this depends on what information he had and what he did or intended to do with it. After all, General Petraeus shared classified info with his biographer/mistress who was a reporter, lied to the FBI, and served 0 days in jail.

In my mind, Trump’s case has merit, but how it is handled needs to be done very sensitively to ensure as much legitimacy as possible. I don’t think over prosecuting is wise. After all, I think the worst potential crimes have yet to be addressed- including subverting the electoral process and Trump’s responsibility in 1/6 (particularly promotion of election denial and waiting ours to respond to the riots and Capitol breach).

 

[mac_in_tosh]

I have mixed feelings on this indictment. In my opinion, in an ideal world, Hillary Clinton should have been prosecuted over her server situation and what appeared to me as blatant obstruction.

From HuffPost, How Trump’s Classified Documents Case Differs From Those Of Clinton, Biden And Pence :

"Four investigations revealed that Clinton did not have forethought in her retention of classified information, just three of the emails on her server were even marked as classified when they were received and she complied with the Justice Department’s investigation fully. This is almost the exact opposite of what Trump is alleged to have done."

The differences in the two cases are huge. Trump had forethought because he for months didn't respond to the Archives request to return the documents. There were hundreds of classified documents, some with the highest level of classification. He obstructed the return of the documents by defying a subpoena and lying about what he had, as well as moving the boxes around to hide them from the DOJ as well as his own lawyers.

 

[Cmaier]

From HuffPost, How Trump’s Classified Documents Case Differs From Those Of Clinton, Biden And Pence :

"Four investigations revealed that Clinton did not have forethought in her retention of classified information, just three of the emails on her server were even marked as classified when they were received and she complied with the Justice Department’s investigation fully. This is almost the exact opposite of what Trump is alleged to have done."

The differences in the two cases are huge. Trump had forethought because he for months didn't respond to the Archives request to return the documents. There were hundreds of classified documents, some with the highest level of classification. He obstructed the return of the documents by defying a subpoena and lying about what he had, as well as moving the boxes around to hide them from the DOJ as well as his own lawyers.

Trump literally told Nauta to move the boxes in order hide the docs from his own lawyer, Corcoran, who was looking for them in order to comply with a court order.

One would have to be pretty brainwashed to think there’s any similarity.