US may send Ukraine fighter jets

[Cmaier]

US may send fighter jets to Ukraine; 15,000 Russian soldiers killed, 45,000 wounded, CIA estimates: Live Ukraine updates — USA TODAY

A top U.S. military general says the United States and its allies are considering providing Ukraine with fighter jets. Latest updates.

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[Deleted member 215]

To what end? I was on board with as much support as possible at the outset of the war, but it seems pretty clear Russia will control eastern and southern Ukraine. I don't see what good this does other than further the destruction of a country that is already badly destroyed.

 

[Cmaier]

To what end? I was on board with as much support as possible at the outset of the war, but it seems pretty clear Russia will control eastern and southern Ukraine. I don't see what good this does other than further the destruction of a country that is already badly destroyed.

Sounds like the powers-that-be disagree with your conclusion, and believe Ukraine can actually wrest back control of most of the territory if properly equipped. I‘m guessing that the people living in those areas would prefer that outcome as well.

 

[AG_PhamD]

The way I see it either you give Ukraine everything they need to win the war using conventional means or you push for a peace negotiation. This half-@$$ed approach of sending the minimum of what is needed only after another country agrees (and much later in time than is ideal) only works to draw out the war as long as possible. Example: Ukraine wants rockets. US says no. UK says yes. Then US says yes, but only 4 HIMARS. And then a few more.

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist but perhaps the goal of the west is to wear down the Russian military at the expense of Ukraine? Obviously we want Ukraine to win, but if we can do it in a manner thats most damaging to Russia, especially when we’re not putting our own troops on the line, why not?

I think all the concern about Russia attacking NATO because of our arms support is overstated. I think the last thing Russia wants is a war with NATO, especially when fighting Ukraine is taking everything they’ve got. All the rhetoric is just media hype and Russian propaganda and bloviating.

I’m not sure how the US can just send jets to Ukraine though. I’m sure we have a few Migs and Su’s sitting around or doing the trade of US planes with NATO countries with Soviet Jets, but even those are won’t have the proper onboard systems compatible with the Ukrainians. Sending them something like F-16’s would require extensive training and again have comparability issues not to mention serious maintenance issues. It seems like either way it would take quite some time to train up the Ukrainians or get Soviet era jets compatible with Ukrainian systems and training. Maybe that’s all been happening in the background, who knows.

 

[Cmaier]

The way I see it either you give Ukraine everything they need to win the war using conventional means or you push for a peace negotiation. This half-@$$ed approach of sending the minimum of what is needed only after another country agrees (and much later in time than is ideal) only works to draw out the war as long as possible. Example: Ukraine wants rockets. US says no. UK says yes. Then US says yes, but only 4 HIMARS. And then a few more.

Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist but perhaps the goal of the west is to wear down the Russian military at the expense of Ukraine? Obviously we want Ukraine to win, but if we can do it in a manner thats most damaging to Russia, especially when we’re not putting our own troops on the line, why not?

I think all the concern about Russia attacking NATO because of our arms support is overstated. I think the last thing Russia wants is a war with NATO, especially when fighting Ukraine is taking everything they’ve got. All the rhetoric is just media hype and Russian propaganda and bloviating.

I’m not sure how the US can just send jets to Ukraine though. I’m sure we have a few Migs and Su’s sitting around or doing the trade of US planes with NATO countries with Soviet Jets, but even those are won’t have the proper onboard systems compatible with the Ukrainians. Sending them something like F-16’s would require extensive training and again have comparability issues not to mention serious maintenance issues. It seems like either way it would take quite some time to train up the Ukrainians or get Soviet era jets compatible with Ukrainian systems and training. Maybe that’s all been happening in the background, who knows.

It sounds like the jets will be western jets, not soviet jets. Quipped the spokesman when asked about that, something like “would be tough getting spare parts from the Russians, don’t ya think?”

I’m guessing the training has already been underway for some time.

 

[Macky-Mac]

To what end? I was on board with as much support as possible at the outset of the war, but it seems pretty clear Russia will control eastern and southern Ukraine. I don't see what good this does other than further the destruction of a country that is already badly destroyed.

I'd say the short term objective at this point is still to stop Russia from seizing additional territory.

According to the link and other reports, just recently Russia's foreign minister Lavrov said that "Russia has added additional parts of southern Ukraine to its focus". So Russia seems prepared to continue to inflict further destruction whether or not the West continues to help Ukraine.

At the moment it does seem that the Russian view is that NATO will ultimately get tired of helping Ukraine and turn its attention elsewhere, leaving Russia to take what it wants.

 

[Eric]

I'd say the short term objective at this point is still to stop Russia from seizing additional territory.

According to the link and other reports, just recently Russia's foreign minister Lavrov said that "Russia has added additional parts of southern Ukraine to its focus". So Russia seems prepared to continue to inflict further destruction whether or not the West continues to help Ukraine.

At the moment it does seem that the Russian view is that NATO will ultimately get tired of helping Ukraine and turn its attention elsewhere, leaving Russia to take what it wants.

Couldn't agree more, while I think we've been "meaning" to do the right thing, just tipping our toes in and giving them the bare minimum in an untimely manner has not helped things. We need to do a better job of enabling them to defend themselves, I also agree that Russia is more talk than anything when it comes to NATO, he doesn't even have the resources he needs for Ukraine, let alone to start another war.

On a personal level I think anyone who bombs the hell out of a bunch of innocent people should be targeted and taken out, not a popular opinion here but if we take off our partisan blinders putting down the murderer is the right thing to do.

 

[AG_PhamD]

It sounds like the jets will be western jets, not soviet jets. Quipped the spokesman when asked about that, something like “would be tough getting spare parts from the Russians, don’t ya think?”

I’m guessing the training has already been underway for some time.

Apparently there’s been talk about sending A-10’s, which seems pretty silly. While it seems like a nice gesture, the USAF determined many years ago the A-10 is obsolete in a modern day conflict with contested airspace. The A-10 is a great attack platform if you own the sky and is very survivable against smaller arms- quite a brilliant design in fact, but that’s simply not the case in Ukraine at the moment with tons of SAMs and MANPADS.

I imagine Ukraine doesn’t not have a ton of trained combat pilots and the ones they do have already have less than ideal cockpit time as it is. So throwing them into unsurvivable aircraft seems like a terrible idea.

I am friends with a former A-10 pilot who thinks using them in Ukraine would be a “suicide mission”. The Ukraine defense officials appear to feel the same way. I suppose the plus side is Ukraine has become more objective in understanding their needs- months ago I’m sure they would have taken anything they could get.

Many in politics and Air Force administration have been trying to dump the A-10 for years but have received a lot of pushback. This might have just been an attempt for the government to try to unload these planes once and for all.

My theory again is the west either needs to push for a peace deal or give Ukraine everything they need to effectively and efficiently drive Russia out. If we’re going to give Ukraine planes they either need to be Soviet era planes they can fly or something like the F-16 or Saab Gripen that would actually be useful. I assume the F-35A would be out of the question.